If you’ve ever felt stretched thin between career, family, and your own unmet needs, this discussion on healthy giving is your next breath. Nationally respected psychiatrist and policy strategist Dr. Rhonda Mattox joins us to peel back the layers of the “sandwich generation squeeze” and the “invisible emotional labor” carried by doctors, caregivers, mothers, and daughters. They get real about the crushing weight of guilt and resentment, and the necessary struggle to set intentional boundaries. Consider this your permission slip to stop sacrificing yourself—because healthy giving is about giving from a place that doesn’t empty you.
Music courtesy of Dealer’s Choice Sound Recordings, Inc.
Music artist: djezi
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Watch the episode here
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The Sandwich Generation Squeeze: How To Practice Healthy Giving With Dr. Rhonda Mattox, Part 1
The Sandwich Generation Squeeze: Where ‘Yes’ Becomes Too Much
We’re stepping into a conversation that so many women live, but rarely name. Dr. Rhonda Mattox is back with us, not just as a nationally respected psychiatrist and policy strategist, but also as a woman who deeply understands the impossible tension of being everything to everyone, from the sandwich generation squeeze to the invisible emotional labor that physicians, caregivers, mothers, and daughters carry. This episode gets real about the guilt, resentments, and struggle to set boundaries that we don’t want to admit. If you’ve ever felt pulled in every direction, if you’ve ever wondered why your yes became too heavy, or if you’ve ever questioned whether your giving is healthy, this conversation is for you.
We are always excited to have our friend and partner in crime, Dr. Rhonda Mattox.
Dr. Rhonda Mattox, welcome back to the show.
Thank you. It is my pleasure.
It is always so exciting to have you here. As we talk about healthy, unhealthy giving, and all the questions, I am going to try to hold back all of my comments and listen to your sage and wise advice. This is such a relevant topic, not only to me, but in terms of where we are in the world, where we are in the US, and where we are as women taking care of others. We’re so grateful that you are always here to share your wise advice. We’re going to jump right into it if you’re good.
Let’s do it.
The sandwich generation squeeze. As women in our 50s juggling aging parents, our own families, and us in particular demanding medical careers, where does the yes become too much?
I pay attention to how I feel when invitations are extended to me. That means sometimes, my belly leaps and I’m like, “All in.” Anytime Dr. Sylvia or Dr. Angela asks me to do something, most of the time, it’s like, “I’m all in,” but then I pay attention to when I don’t feel the yes and what that means. What I mean is, for instance, every good idea is not a God idea. When you’re purpose-driven, you know what brings you joy. You know the direction you want to go.
As women, we’re frequently taught to be nurturers. We’re taught to whom much is given or much is required. Frequently, we are punished for saying no. We grow up hearing, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.” Along the way, we come up with the idea that no is a bad thing, and when no is not a bad thing, necessarily. Make sure that you think through why you are saying yes, and make sure that when you say yes, you can do it with the level of excellence you want to. For me, when I realize that I am up in the middle of the night because I said yes and I’m resenting you, that’s an unhealthy yes.
I’m going to interrupt you for a moment. I’m going to try not to do that too much.
Go ahead.
From my experience, because I was so committed to doing what was right and acceptable from my parents or the world’s point of view, when I was much younger, I didn’t quite know what I wanted or what it felt like for me to be like, “This is great.” I stamped down my own personal feelings or being in tune with my inner self.
That’s great. A part of that is because we’re brought up to, “You don’t want to give your aunt a hug? Give her a hug anyway.” We’re pressed into saying yes. Many times, particularly in our generation, we didn’t have the luxury of saying, “I don’t want to give a hug.” We didn’t have the luxury of saying, “I don’t want to sit in their lap.” We start figuring that out a little bit later.
Hopefully, based on the experiences that we have, we can empower our daughters to say no. To ask, “May I hug you?” They didn’t do that. It begins with the luxury of, “Do I even want to do that? Why am I saying yes? Am I saying yes because I’m trying to curry favor with someone, or is this a true yes?” It’s easier for some of us to say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious than to say no, but we have to practice it.
Bailing Out Gracefully: When You Have to Revoke a ‘Yes’
How about this? How do you deal with the fact that in the moment that you said yes, yes was a good idea, but then you have all of these other things that are in the way you have committed to, and you said yes? What’s the process when we have to say, “I’m sorry. I have to bow out.” What should be our mental process in that situation?
I want you to understand that you have the right to say, “I can no longer do this. My cup runneth over. My plate, my platter, my floor, my ceiling. I am overwhelmed. At that moment, I certainly wanted to do that.” You have to balance it because there are certain things that only you can do. Even if it’s not amazing and you have to do ABC, your mental health is important. I can pull from the fact that I personally, Rhonda Mattox, knew that my body was exhausted and tired, and I kept saying, “This one more thing.” I ended up hospitalized doing this one more thing. We don’t always practice what we preach. It’s so easy.
You have the right to say, 'I can no longer do this. My cup runneth over my plate...' Share on XDo what I say. Don’t do what I do.
It is so easy to coach. It’s one thing to be in the game and play the game. You have to understand that there is only one of you. You are a commodity. No one else is going to fight for you. I remember my first year out of residency. I am a psychiatrist. I speak for a living. I had laryngitis. I wanted someone to tell me it was okay for me not to go to work. I had someone say, “I’ll be dead when you get back,” so I went to work as a psychiatrist, writing down questions. Do you know how stupid that is? I used the S word, but it was stupid. You have to take prioritizing your health out of other people’s hands because they don’t give a hoot. They may give a hoot, but they have other hoots to give.
The ethos, especially in medicine, is that you keep grinding. The patient is the most important thing. The patients are waiting on you. You cannot not go to work.
I don’t get that as much as you don’t want to burden your partners.
Burden them.
There's only one of you, and no one else is going to fight for you. Share on XWhat were you going to say?
Caregiving As An Only Child: Navigating The Sole Responsibility
I was having that very conversation as well. What it came down to was that it started burdening your partners as well. Dr. Rhonda, you brought up the concept of you’re not the only one. What happens when you’re an only child? The three of us, among many things that we have in common, including being fabulous, are that we’re only children. When you are an only child, the responsibilities for caregiving fall to you because you’re the only child. We won’t even get into the gender thing that we’re the only girls. How do we navigate that?
That is nuanced because we have the benefit of funds. When I was navigating my mother’s last days, I was in medical school, and I didn’t have the benefit of funds. I would say delegate, hire, or whatever. That’s a privilege. I have the benefit of having privilege, but I also have the benefit of remembering when I was in med school and I was navigating. There were no funds. There were no resources. I was it.
I would never recommend this, but I’m going to tell you what I did. I took off. I left medical school for a while. We don’t want to put our parents in nursing homes. I didn’t want her in a nursing home. She didn’t want to be in a nursing home, so I bossed up. We don’t want to hear, “Take off from medical school,” but for me, it was the right thing to do. I would’ve felt a lot of guilt.
I encourage people to be motivated by love and not by guilt. That was a different season in my life, and I was not nearly as mature. As I’m thinking back on it, I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same thing. I would take off from whatever because of all the sacrifices she had made for me. That was where I was, and that’s where I am now.
That said, understand that while we may be only children, we’ve built tribes. My mother had built a community for me. Before I took off, she brought healthy women into my life. We had healthy friends who helped, supported, and still pour into me. The issue, though, is that there are many women who are reading this segment who do not have the luxury or the benefit of being reared by a healthy parent, so there’s resentment that is associated with caretaking. They may not have the benefit of having a healthy tribe. They may not have the benefit of having healthy siblings.
When we’re talking about this, we’re talking about it from the luxury of having some healthy community. Understand that when you don’t have a healthy community, particularly with your siblings, you have to build it. If you’ve not had a healthy community, you may have a lot of toxicity. Go get some therapy and work through it so that you can start building a healthy community. I hope that doesn’t sound patronizing or whatever, but you get where I’m coming from.
That’s spot on. My mother transitioned when I was in medical school, but she had a strong tribe. Her wish for me is that I stay in medical school. I didn’t have to go home because there were people around her who supported her and allowed me to stay in school. I understand exactly what you are saying. I hope that whoever in our audience is reading understands that you make the best decision at the time based on the information that you have, and then you move forward.
What I got from that comment, which resonates for me, is for us to continue building our own tribe. I can be as transparent as I can. My mom doesn’t have that same tribe, so I am it. Thank God I’m an only child, but we have my husband’s family and beautiful friends in the area, but not large, and certainly not anyone that could be burdened with her care. It is building your tribe. We talked a couple of episodes ago about also making your wishes known and creating that so that your loved ones already have something in place that they know is in line with what you had desired for yourself. Thank you.
Building Your Tribe: Finding And Utilizing Community Support
I was going to add that it’s not too late to build your tribe. If you don’t have people in your life that you can count on, then we start where we are. You work on yourself, and then that light will hopefully attract the right people to your life. We don’t necessarily need a whole lot of them, but you do need people that you can count on. Dr. Rhonda, can you weigh in on that?
As you were talking, I thought about someone. I can’t think of his name, but he has the saying, “Start where you are. Use what you have. DO what you can.” Often, we don’t think about what we have. We have a church community. I was helping a friend of mine who was moving to find support for her mother. We found that there are some communities and some churches that have caregiver groups that will call and support you.
You have to take prioritizing your health out of other people's hands. Share on XWhen you are a caregiver and you’re an only child, many times, you jump in. I googled Albany caretaker, and all this stuff started coming up. There are certain caregiver groups. You can check in with AARP. Many times, they know of support systems that are in place that we don’t know. There’s the city organization. Don’t think about it from a, “Who in my family can help?” but check in with churches, check in with AARP, and check in with different organizations so that you can see support groups.
Calling Medicare or whatever the insurance company is and then asking about specific resources that they have for them can be helpful. While I’m not navigating the caregiver journey, so many of my friends and colleagues are that I have become an adjunct caregiver champion, even when I’m speaking at groups. Not long ago, I was speaking about grief. I interrupted my session to say, “We need to have this talk about caregivers the next time.” They were like, “We do.”
Recognizing The Invisible Load: Emotional Labor That No One Sees
It is so relevant. Let’s talk a little bit about the invisible load. As doctors, mothers, wives, daughters, and caregivers, how do you recognize when you are performing emotional labor that no one else even sees?
Your body will tell you. For me, when you said that, I felt it all in my shoulders. There is this invisible tax that comes with being a Black woman that no one talks about. Open circles. Let’s say you are Jamaican or Nigerian. You came to this country, and you’re first-generation. The tax is that you’re going to reach back, and you’re going to pull forward the Sankofa spirit. You’re going to give all of your money to all these other people. When you’re an immigrant or you’re 1st generation or 2nd generation, I see that a lot.
We also have that here. I remember growing up, particularly if you are the first college graduate, seeing my aunt, who was the first graduate that I remember. There were some others, but she was the first one that I remember. Everyone supported her. Someone bought her car. People bought her clothes. When she made it, there were all these hands out, and my hand out included as a kid, like, “What did you get me?” I didn’t realize the burden that she carried.
I can remember Christmases. I come from a big family. All of us had these designer clothes or whatever. She was in the Military, so it wasn’t like she was making a zillion dollars, but she was sponsoring the family. People were proud of her. The person who gave $0.75 for a bus ticket expected the same amount. Do you get what I’m saying?
Start where you are, use what you have to do and what you can. Share on XI may be going off in a direction I wasn’t intending to go, but I’m saying there are a lot of hands, many times, that are reaching out to us that are White counterparts. They don’t get that because they don’t necessarily have that. There comes a time, though, when you have to realize, “I’m not going to have a retirement plan if I keep this up.” You have to start setting boundaries, and then you become, “She thinks she’s all that.” It’s like, “I think I’m all that. You are all that as well. However, now I have children and a husband. Now, I cannot continue to contribute,” because your husband and children weigh in.
They think that you owe them. That is what is implicit in that. They’re like, “I helped you win, so now you, in essence, owe me.” The question is, “Did I not already pay that debt?” or, “Did you not do that out of the kindness of your heart? I was able to help you previously, but my life circumstances have changed. Yours have changed. I’m also no longer paying for your series of bad choices.” Have I said too much?
I need you to stay right there. Don’t go on. Carry on. That’s the thing, though. Our life changes. For me, I am very intentional about being motivated by love and not by guilt and shame. Now that I’ve gone through years of therapy, that I have been in church, and that I have received messages of forgiveness or whatever, I can say no, and I can say it more easily than I used to. Whereas there was a time when I didn’t want to give it to you anyway, but I didn’t know how to say no. I felt guilty saying no. I felt like, “Who am I to say no?” That is the wonderful thing about therapy.
Why A Therapist Is Essential: Confidentiality And Expertise
I know some of you out there in our audience believe that all you need is the Lord, and that all you need is your girlfriends. Sometimes, you are going to have to talk to your therapist about your girlfriends. You are going to have to talk to the therapist about the pastor who has aired something, perhaps. With a therapist, you’re paying for confidentiality and expertise. If Sylvia and I stopped being friends, I could put her business on Snapchat, Instagram, Discord, LinkedIn, you name it.
It’s impartial and non-judgmental. Even if you tell them everything bad about your friend or your partner, that’s not going to come back and judge or hold resentment against that person to help guide you. My stance sometimes with patients, because I am a woman of faith and I believe in the power of prayer and what I hold in my heart in terms of what God has done for me, is I feel like we have come to this moment in time where He has given me the knowledge to help cure disease, prevent disease, treat patients, and bring life into the world. He has also given the same knowledge in a different way to a psychiatrist or a psychologist. Why would we be against creating a healthier mental life for ourselves? Why would that be anything other than something that would’ve been created by God?
Sometimes, it’s how we were raised. I was raised, like, “Never let them see you sweat. If you want anything done right, do it yourself.” As a woman of color, I was also raised that I had to be ten times better, so I don’t help the man or whatever. There was this highly spoken and yet unspoken rule to present your best face forward and not air out dirty laundry. When dirty laundry was aired out, then sometimes, kids were taken because they didn’t believe in this or that. It was very much ingrained into my Southern small-town culture, which may not be like yours, to never let them see you sweat, to not need anyone, and that kind of thing.
There is this invisible tax that comes with being a Black woman no one talks about. Share on XWhen you say how you could recognize when you’re performing emotional labor that no one else sees, we’re always performing emotional labor that no one else sees, acknowledges, respects, or regards. When we’re walking in our anointing, we make it look easy. We think, “They should see that I am overworked and overburdened and offer.” Nobody is coming to your rescue if you don’t say, “I need. I am. I cannot put anything else on my plate.”
You have to save yourself.
While we’re at it, let me say this. For those of you who struggle to say no, let me give you some strategies. First off, “Thank you for that wonderful opportunity. I’m not going to be able to take you up on that. Thank you for thinking of me. Thank you for your vote of confidence. However, at this time, I cannot accept that. Let me give that some thought. If there is something that I can take off my plate, I may circle back.” Number four, “That is not my scope of expertise or an area that I’m interested in continuing to expound upon. Have you considered ABC? That is her gift.”
I’ll be writing those down.
That’s my favorite.
The next one is, “I’ll get back with you.”
That’s a good one.
This is a perfect place to pause so that we can continue our conversation in the next episode. Dr. Rhonda, we are going to thank you. We will continue our conversation, so please stay tuned.
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The Source Of Guilt: Breaking Free From Societal And Inner Judgments
Dr. Rhonda, we have talked about a lot of things. It’s a good time to talk about guilt. We know that people have expectations. If we fail to meet their expectations, sometimes, we feel guilty. Please, clean up if I’m not saying that correctly. Maybe I was oversharing. Let’s talk about guilt.
Where does it come from? We sometimes hear the voices of our parents in our heads. Our guilt is informed by things that we’ve heard growing up as children. Sometimes, we know what we’ve thought about others in our secret place. We may not have expressed it, but we know the secret judgments we’ve made about others. We imagine that if we do ABC, they’re going to put those same judgments that we harbor about others on us. That’s that. Sometimes, it comes from our faith.
Our guilt is informed by things that we've heard growing up as a child. Share on XI’m going to give you an example. When I was carefree, childfree, and husband-free, I would see these mothers out. Their kids could be hanging from the ceiling, and they would ignore them. I would think, “What?” I would see these mothers, and they would be dressed to the nines. Meanwhile, their children looked homeless. I would think, “What?”
Now that I am a married mother of a teenager, I understand that those judgments were quite unfair, and I imagine that people are judging me quite the same. I can remember a particular incident that I am ashamed to share, but I’m going to share. The backstory is my husband is in ministry, and I’m in ministry. There’s a certain way people expect you to look and your child to look. My daughter loved pin stripes spots in whatever.
Do you mean polka dots?
Pin stripes, polka dots, and leopard prints. She puts them all together, and I’m imagining what is going to happen. One of our biggest arguments happened over my child’s creativity, which I did not respect. It was from my imagination of what I’d heard these other ladies saying and what I myself had also thought.
Old church ladies?
The old church ladies and some of the young church ladies, too. Don’t be a part of organizations, perhaps the Greek organization, you name it, where you feel like there are these standards that you need to hold to. That type of pressure makes you feel guilty. The other thing is that people downright try to make you feel guilty. You have mothers. You know how they’ll do you. You have old grandmothers or old aunts and uncles who will throw their expectations on you, and then there you go, trying to pick it up and be about whatever their expectations are. It’s exhausting.
I would do stuff and say, “If I don’t do this, you’re going to think I’m blah.” Right about the time when I realized they thought that regardless of what I did, I said, “They don’t like me anyway. They think bad things about me anyway, so I should be happy doing some of the stuff I want to do.” I feel like you wanted a doctor’s answer, and I gave you an old girlfriend’s answer.
That’s real. Beyond parents and those types of expectations, it’s societal expectations. It’s what society thinks you should do when your kids are doing this or doing that. It’s what society or our community says should happen when your aging parent becomes ill. We live, a lot of times, to our own detriment, trying to live up to what we think those expectations are.
That’s why the conversations are important to know that there is a range of options that can happen when we’re raising a child, or in a marriage, or taking care of the elderly. Most importantly, it is what aligns with you and what helps you to live in this world. We’re trying not to live for somebody else’s expectations. What do you think, doctor?
The guilt sometimes comes as we’re approaching Thanksgiving, Christmas, and the holidays. It’s the guilt of not being able to give what you’ve traditionally given, now that maybe you don’t have the same employer. You’re an entrepreneur, and you are not making 6 figures, 7 figures, or whatever. That guilt doesn’t have to come from someplace else. It can be completely self-imposed. When you get into your purpose-driven walk and you are paying attention to who you are, sometimes, the guilt is not as much as it used to be, but you have to be intentional and self-reflective in order to move out of that.
When you get into your purpose-driven walk, and you are really paying attention to who you are, the guilt is sometimes not as much as it used to be. Share on XI knew you would be talking to me in this episode. I’m taking notes.
Grief And Guilt During The Holidays: Healing Unsaid Conversations
The holidays can be tricky, too, when we think about people we’ve lost. If you were not able to have those final conversations with them, whatever that means for you, then there can be an annual re-grieving. I made that word up. Dr. Rhonda will help me clean that up.
It’s an anniversary.
It is the remembrance of the reminder of perhaps things unsaid, or, “I wish I could have. It’s being able to forgive yourself or even have the conversation that you’d like to have with them. Those of us who believe that people have moved on to the next realm or are spiritually in a different place, we could still talk to them, if that’s something that works for you. It could also be writing a letter. Rhonda, what are some other Dr. Rhonda healthy ways to deal with re-grieving or the anniversary of someone’s death, especially around the holidays?
This is an important question because the grief and the guilt come with, many times, “What was my last conversation with them? What was my last interaction with them?” Also, we’ll pull up some conflict that we had twenty years ago that we’ve moved on from or that we think they’ve moved on from. We’ll ruminate and get into that guilt place.
For me, if we’re talking about parents or loved ones, many times, our parents or loved ones knew we loved them, even if we operated in conflict at times. This is a reminder to understand that any conversation we have may be our last. While we may not be able to change the past things, it is remembering this and trying to leave conversations like, “If this were my last conversation, I’d be okay with that.” It’s the releasing of yourself.
Sometimes, people will write letters saying, “I wish,” and say whatever it is that they want to. Sometimes, if there’s a grave site, they’ll go to the grave site and say their piece. For me, I’m like you, Dr. Sylvia. I feel like I can say things to my mom and think that she’s in a great cloud of witnesses, maybe cheering me on.
That comforts me because there were so many times when something amazing would happen to me, and I would have this paradoxical sadness, like, “I wish she could be here.” I read the scripture in Hebrews about this great cloud of witnesses. In my mind, that looks almost like a colosseum with all these people who are like, “You can do it.” In my mind, I’ll hear her say, “That’s my baby,” because she didn’t embarrass me or whatever.
Let me add onto that. Now that you, me, and Dr. Angela are connected, I feel as if my mom is along with your mom and with Angela’s dad. They’re like, “Look at our girls,” and are very proud. That does give me comfort.
I like that. If you’re in the audience and you don’t believe in the afterlife, and we sound a little kooky, we don’t even offer an apology. That’s who we are. Enjoy us with all of our quirks.
Also, keep tuning in.
With the guilt part, I imagine myself sometimes laying that burden of guilt down, casting my care about that situation at God’s feet, and saying, “Here. This is yours to carry. This is too heavy for me to carry. I don’t want to carry it anymore.” I give myself grace, like, “I messed up.” I often remember my mother’s last day on earth. She was in the hospital. Meanwhile, I was on the phone with a bucket head, talking.
With someone who was not your husband.
It was clearly not my husband. I was on the phone talking to a buckethead on her last day of life, so I had a lot of guilt about how she spent her last day of life. I also later was reminded, “You took off from school. You prepared eggs that she hated. You left a newspaper on the floor that she cursed you out about, but she knew that you were there. When the ships were down, you were there.” That’s how I comfort myself.
Others have said, “I wasn’t there when she took her last breath.” I comforted myself with that because it would’ve been torture for me to relive that over and over. While I did initially have some guilt that I wasn’t there for a last breath, I also have some relief that I’m not having nightmares about that. Whatever your experience is with how your loved ones left, certainly, get therapy. Get that washed out and cleansed out so that you can start to enjoy the sweet moments or the not-so-sweet moments.
Whatever your experience is with how your loved ones left, certainly get therapy. Get that washed out and cleansed out so that you can start to enjoy the sweet and not-so-sweet moments. Share on XI cackle over my mother accusing me of trying to kill her because I left a newspaper on the floor. She almost fell. After you get past your guilt, there are so many amazing moments that will make you laugh or remember them fondly. I don’t know if you get through grief, but it is getting past your anger because anger is a big part of grief. You’re angry a lot. Get past your anger, make peace with your anger, or what have you, so that you can enjoy the fond moments and then introduce the new loved ones, maybe your grandkids or whoever, to those memories of people they may never meet. Did that answer your question?
Yeah.
Probably ad nauseam. I’m sorry.
From Love To Resentment: The Caregiving Tipping Point
You could say more and more, and we’d still be listening and writing down notes. I’ve got my whole list. Along those lines, how do you know when caregiving has tipped from love into resentment? What do you do when you realize you’re keeping score or when you’re in those moments of resentment? It’s a two-part question. I also find myself, if I do feel that resentment, going back to that guilt because I have a mom who’s still here. I know that whatever I’m feeling, there are close friends, you all, and others who don’t have that who may potentially give to be in my situation.
Your body will tell you. Your emotions are not good or bad. They are indicators. Think of it as red light, yellow light, and green light. Those feelings are feelings. They’re not facts. They’re feelings, but they may be letting you know you are not getting enough rest. You are not asking for help when you need it. You are stuffing your emotions, and you’re not doing anything with them.
When you say something like, “Mom, I love you. I’m exhausted. I got to get some rest. I’m going to have to invite someone to help so that I don’t resent you,” that feels scary to say. I don’t know what your relationship is like with her, so I don’t know if she’s going to receive that, like, “Sugar babe, go get some sleep,” or if she’s going to be like, “After all I did for you? I pushed your big head out for five hours.”
Many times, we anticipate what our loved ones are going to say, and then we get stuck and don’t say it. We don’t give them the benefit of supporting us as we’re supporting them. Sometimes, you have to use your voice, but come from love. Try to do it intentionally because otherwise, it will come out mean and evil. You don’t want it, and then you’ll feel guilty about it.
Sometimes you have to use your voice, but come from love and do it intentionally. Share on XWrite it. Say it. Practice some scripts. When I have people that I love that I don’t want to hurt, and I know I need to have hard conversations with them, I’ll put together 2 or 3 different scripts for a scenario. It is so that I don’t blow up in the heat of the moment. It can be like, “Mom, I know that you are private and you don’t want others supporting you. However, I don’t want you by yourself in this house. I need four hours for myself.
I have vetted my friend. She’s going to stay here. You have this phone. You text me a pew-pew emoji and I know to get my butt back here quickly, but Mama, don’t you text me that just because you don’t like what she gave you.” You’re framing it in love and self-care. It could be like, “I have my own health issues, and my doctor has told me that I need to do this. Balancing that with your care is challenging because I don’t want to leave you alone, but I have to prioritize my health, too.”
This is so relevant to me.
To all of us.
To all of us and our readers, for sure. Everything you had to say in terms of going into the holidays with all of these feelings and emotions, I feel like you’ve given us somewhat of a playbook and some comfort in knowing that it’s okay to say no, to set boundaries, and to be intentional. That’s all great advice. I am very happy.
I might have to ChatGPT my script. That might be helpful for me.
That’s a sign of a good therapist because my therapist says the same thing. It has been a game-changer for me, because for some of us, it’s hard to find the words. If it’s harder to find the words, then you never say them. Scripting is great.
If you need to get things out, check out my book on Take 5! Pathway to Peace at DrRhondaMattox.org or on Amazon.com, so that you can start jotting down when you feel big feelings, and then you can begin writing your script. Did you see that plug?
We did. Can you tell us the name of the book again?
Take 5! Pathway to Peace: A 40-Day Journaling Experience. It’s for the person who has a lot of health issues, the person who has anxiety, the person who has big emotions, or the person who wants to express themselves a little bit clearer in the book, so that they can practice and then get it out in the real world in a more polished way.
The person who has anxiety, the person who has big emotions, is the person who just wants to express themselves. Share on XFor all of us, basically.
I love it.
That’s awesome.
We have ordered the book. We’re awaiting its coming.
We’re excited.
Once we have it, we will have another conversation. This is a fantastic place to stop for this part of our conversation. We will continue in part two. Please stay tuned for part two on unhealthy giving with Dr. Rhonda Mattox.
Thank you, Dr. Rhonda.
My pleasure.
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The Final Takeaway: Healthy Giving Is Not Self-Sacrificing
Sylvia, that was an amazing conversation with Dr. Rhonda, as it always is.
She has me over here crying.
You and me. There’s always so much as a psychiatrist, but a woman who has lived such a beautiful life and has such a giving heart to offer. We are grateful that she joined us for this powerful and necessary conversation. We peeled back the layers of what it means to care, to give, and to stretch ourselves between aging parents, growing kids, demanding careers, and our own unmet needs.
What we learned is that healthy giving isn’t always about doing more. It’s about giving from a place that doesn’t empty you. It’s recognizing the invisible load, releasing the guilt, and remembering that being strong doesn’t mean self-sacrificing. If you’re reading this, consider this your permission slip to pause, ask for help, and protect the parts of you that no one sees, but everyone depends upon. A huge thanks to Dr. Rhonda Mattox for her honesty and wisdom. To our audience, remember, taking care of everyone doesn’t come at the cost of losing yourself.
Please listen, like, subscribe, and follow us wherever you get your show. Also, please subscribe to our YouTube channel @BossLeapPodcast. You can drop us a line if you have questions for us or suggestions for topics at BossLeapPodcast@gmail.com. Thank you very much. May you be well.
May you be well.
Important Links
- Dr. Rhonda Mattox
- All Products | Dr. Rhonda Mattox, Psychiatrist
- Take 5! Pathway to Peace: A 40-Day Journaling Experience
- Take 5! Pathway to Peace: A 40-Day Journaling Experience on Amazon
- @BossLeapPodcast on YouTube
- BossLeapPodcast@gmail.com
About Dr. Rhonda Mattox
Hi, I’m Dr. Rhonda Mattox. At my core, I’m a woman of faith who believes peace is possible even in a chaotic world. I wear many hats—wife, mother, psychiatrist, speaker, author, coach, consultant, and encourager. Yet, one of the roles I value most highly is helping people lay down the heavy mask of perfection and step into the freedom God intended for them.
I know what it feels like to be a public success while silently feeling like a private failure. I know what it’s like to hear the words, “Mommy, I hate you!” just moments before walking into a room full of parents expecting me to teach them how to build strong relationships with their children. I know what it’s like for others to assume I have it all together—the degrees, the career, the smile—while inside I was exhausted, anxious, and quietly crumbling. They thought they wanted what I had, and truthfully, I didn’t even want what I had. Behind closed doors, I had to do the hard work of examining myself. I had to gather what I call my Joy Wellness Team—my psychiatrist, my pastor, my pup, my emancipation circle, family, and friends. And at the center of it all was my journal. That journal became my safe place.
I’ve spent my career walking alongside high-achievers, faith leaders, and everyday women who silently carry the weight of the world while making it look effortless. I know that struggle intimately, because I’ve carried it too. That’s why I’m so passionate about creating spaces where we can be real, breathe deeply, and reclaim rest without guilt.