Navigating the world of finance and entrepreneurship doesn’t have to feel like a maze, especially when you’ve got a guide like Cecily Welch to break it all down. In this episode, Dr. Sylvia Morris and Dr. Angela Walker delve into calculated risks and the entrepreneurial journey with Cecily, a certified financial planner, CPA, and owner of Welch Financial Advisors. Cecily shares her unconventional path from aspiring dancer to financial whiz, offering candid insights into building a successful business, managing finances, and the importance of having advocates. Describing herself as “the hippiest capitalist,” she emphasizes the importance of money in supporting the things you value. Tune in for practical advice on estate planning, navigating complex tax laws, and how to achieve financial success without sacrificing the joy of living in the moment, all delivered with Cecily’s signature blend of pragmatism and humor.
You may reach Cecily Welch and learn more about The Welch Center here:
https://www.cecilywelchcpa.com/
https://www.thewelchcenter.com/
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Cecily Welch: The Hippiest Capitalist’s Guide To Entrepreneurship And Building Wealth
The Accountant You Can Understand
Personal Estate Planning Stories & Reflections
We had the pleasure of speaking with Cecily Welch. She is a CPA, Certified Financial Advisor, letters behind her name. She is the owner of Welch Financial Advisors and gave us just so much practical information to take with us in terms of how to plan for life in general. Sylvia, one of the things we can talk about, just briefly, is our personal experiences with estate planning. More so because we are in this sandwich generation of taking care of our elders in what our experiences have been. I’ll let you go first and maybe give you a little bit of what it’s been like with Uncle William.
I’m so excited that Cecily started talking about estate planning and couched it as “What do you want done with your stuff when you’re gone?” Oftentimes, people think of estate planning a lot differently, and you get stuck and afraid to move forward because who wants to think about their ultimate demise? It has been an interesting journey. I know that you two have an elder in your life and are just starting the conversations and getting people to move forward in a timely fashion. I have had to lean into my own personal compassion. Also, just knowing, “This is a goal. It’s going to get done.” My timeline and my uncle’s timeline are two different things.
Sometimes, we just have to come back around to the conversation again, just a tiny little pearl. I was there recently, and I had been talking to him about having the housekeeper come because his house was dirty, but I’m just like, “It’s going to help you. They’re going to do a deep clean. I have a housekeeper. She’s quite helpful for me and keeping my house maintained.” The housekeeper came once, he did that for me. He was like, “I’m just going to see how it goes, to see how I feel.” I spoke with the care manager. She said, “He’s only going to do it when you come.” I’m like, “I’m not going to fight that fight.” Please talk to us about your journey with estate planning with your mom.
I’ll just backtrack a little bit with my dad before he passed. He brought us this huge binder with all of his information in there. My dad was ex-air force and our air force man. In that way, he was very organized, and he was just very adamant about keeping things updated. He would say, “Did you get that piece? Did you get that new piece of mail in the mail? Put that in your folder.” I was very grateful for what he was doing for me, but I didn’t understand the weight of what he had done until he passed.
In that folder, there was an outline of everything I needed to do. I needed to call the firm that he had used. They offered estate planning, so they did everything for him. They do everything for the family as well to help to take you through that process. I didn’t have to go to probate because he had put things in a trust. He had used them for some financial planning. That being said, I was just grateful because it was such a huge gift when you are grieving to have number one, to know what they wanted.
To make clear decisions.
I’m an only child. It wouldn’t have been as difficult if five kids were making hard decisions, but nevertheless, it was easy. My dad trusted this firm, it was easy for me to say said, “Carl, if he trusted them, I’m just going to use them.” We created a trust for ourselves, for our family, and so for our girls, and basically, I’ve got that same binder for them. Transitioning into my mom, it’s been a different journey.
Your mom and dad are different people. We would expect it to be a different experience.
Very much so. For the longest, my mom had talked about, “I need to do a will.” What a lot of people do. She’s in Texas, and I’m here in Georgia, but I am an only child, and she has no siblings either. It was just me. For the longest, “I need to.” Finally, she came to a point where I said, “What if I can set things up and go with you?” That was the impetus that she needed to get things done. It’s been ten years since I’ve been trying to get my mom to Georgia, which sounds like it’s with prayer.
We’re not going to talk about it.
Anyway, I’m not going to make this a whole episode, but what I’ve learned is that all the emotions, some of which you mentioned, are compassion, empathy, and patience. It’s a huge process for a lot of people. I had the example of what happened with my dad. That’s all that I know is a positive outcome of how things could happen, but I don’t think a lot of people were taught to do estate planning. Cecily mentions that it doesn’t matter how much money you have. It’s still important to have those things in place.
The importance is just to be patient as much as possible and try to empathize with where an elder might be coming from. A lot of it can be overwhelming, and it can promote feelings of fear. Maybe acknowledging some of those things, which I have, has been helpful in moving the process along. I am so grateful. I’m also grateful for having you and my other co-authors, just women who are going through the same processes, to know that I’m not in it alone.
Certainly, you are not. I will say that when my mom died, I was in my mid-20s, and I was in med school. Now, I appreciate how organized she was. At the time, I did, but when you’re young, you have no idea. All her stuff was in a truss. There was a binder, or I knew where everything was and who I needed to call and all of those things. I was able to navigate that in my 20s. That was a huge gift. I’m like you, I’m an only child.
In some sense, that makes it easier, but when I was younger, it felt harder because, again, those are all the decisions that I had to make. She did set me up wonderfully to make the transition as easy as it can be when you lose your mom at a much younger age. Cecily talked about not only estate planning but wealth and a lot of time on entrepreneurship. We are excited for everyone to listen to Cecily Welch, certified financial planner. The next voice that you will hear is Cecily Welch.
We have a fantastic guest on Everything Money. We want to welcome Cecily Welch, a certified financial planner, to the show. Welcome Cecily.
Thank you. I appreciate both of you having me. I’m excited to be here.
From Artistic Aspirations To Financial Success: Cecily Welch’s Journey
We are super excited to have you here because you are a money guru. We’re going to get started right off the bat and ask you what did you want to be when you grow up?
This is an odd question because it has nothing to do with what I’m doing now.
We want the tea here on the show.
I will be truthful. I had every intention of being an actress or a dancer of some sort.
You’re the second person.
On the same day.
I love performing, etc., and eventually came to the conclusion that I am not creative. You can put something on me like even when I dance, I would dance and I was great. I loved it. I would be in multiple pieces, but you don’t ask me to create something. It wasn’t how I made, but arts only survive because you get money. I support several nonprofits, and having that lens that values that type of work is really very helpful. My brother says that I’m the hippest capitalist he’s ever met. He is 100% accurate because I’m like, “It’s all about the money.” I can think that’s the most beautiful thing in the world, but that person has to eat. Somebody got to pay him. How’s that going to happen?
That’s a well-balanced woman. That’s what it sounds like to me. How did it turn into finance, then? You are a CPA, Certified Public Accountant.
Yes, a Certified Financial Planner, CFP, Certified Financial Planner, and PFS, which is a Personal Financial Specialist. Financial planners can only be a CPA that is only available to CPAs and a couple acronyms. A couple letters behind my name and how I got into the accounting world story. I have this story I told when I was first coming out of college and looking for a position, and it was all about intent, and that was my plan.
This is what I knew I wanted to do. I researched my college. I have a story that is more accurate that I tell to young people starting out, which says that, “My career path was extremely linear.” It looks like a lot of affirmative choices. It was not at all. I chose my university because I liked that they were very pragmatic, and I’m pragmatic. They didn’t just say, “Great.” They said, “This is what you need to learn in school.”
Didn’t you go to NCAT?
Yes, I went to North Carolina. When I applied, I applied as undecided, and I had a good GPA. I called the school and said, “The only school with money is the business school.” I have a good list of business schools. I said, “I like math.” I checked the county. I was the only one not dropping classes. I was like, “Why do you keep dropping?” It still wasn’t intense.
It’s because it was hard, Cecily.
Clearly, but I didn’t find those things. I may not have found it to be a challenge, but not an insurmountable one. What’s really odd is that twenty years later, I went back, and they were honoring one of my old instructors, and I said, “Dr. HQ, I’m Cecily. Do you remember me?” She goes, “Yeah, you’re the only person in my tax class who got an A without a curve.” I was like, “What?” “I was so disappointed that you didn’t take tax number two.” “Tax number two wasn’t required.” I’m trying to graduate. The fact that I ended up in this profession, specializing in tax compliance, how do we apply to the real world? She was just like, “Duh.” I said, “Why didn’t you tell me that?”
She saw it.
She had a point. I probably would not have listened back then. I was like, “I’m trying to get out of here, get a job, pay some bills.”
You work with a wide range of clients. I’m certain that those of your clients are all financially successful, but there is a gradation of success, and I’m sure there are people who are uber successful. For those who may struggle a little bit, how does that distinguish them from those who are a little bit more successful?
That’s a great question, Sylvia. I think the common thread of those who are financially successful is calculated risks, whether they’re an executive or whether they’ve invested in something. However, they’re making their money and their wealth, they’ve done a calculated risk. Making the decision that if I’ve got 80% of the information, I have to make a decision because once I have 100%, it’s too late. That opportunity is gone.
The common thread of those who are financially successful is calculated risks. Share on XWhen I say calculated risk, that’s as opposed to people who just love each opportunity that comes their way. You cannot be successful doing it that way. Successful people put all their eggs in one basket or maybe two. Once the basket’s full of doing what it needs to do, then you diversify. Even using an analogy similar to Jenny Craig works, Weight Watchers works, and NutriSystems works, but not if you do Weight Watchers on Monday, NutriSystem on Tuesday. You’ve got to put it in.
Calculated Risks & The Entrepreneurial Leap
You have come to this part of your career. You’re an entrepreneur. It’s often portrayed as your overnight success, and you just struck out as a leap of faith. “I’m going to do this because I’ve got my CPA.” You’re obviously very well-versed in tax law. Was that your experience, that it was just in a leap of faith and you got out there and started your business, or can you describe maybe what the real process has beenofbecoming an entrepreneur?
I’m happy to talk on that, Angela, because it’s the urban myth and the love story that I always knew what I wanted to do. I am always on my own. I am a conservative accountant. I am in the right field. Compared to accountants, I’m an extrovert. Compared to normal people, I’m not within the profession. I had every intention of becoming the managing partner of a firm that already existed.
I am capable of doing the work and capable of the time. What’s the next step? I’m better at managing people, strategic. I’m great at educating, speaking, etc., and figuring that out and wanting to get there. I was kicked into being an entrepreneur. I could not advance and get where I needed to go and where I needed to be. Those opportunities just weren’t there. Within a CPA firm, especially the smaller firms, they’re partnerships, which means someone has to put their hand out and invite you up.
If that doesn’t happen, there are many different reasons. It doesn’t matter that that might be what your best fit is. I eventually lost patience and was frustrated and said, “I can figure out how to do this on my own.” I cannot say that it was a fun, planned, intentional goal. “This is what I was always going to do.” I just did not feel like I was in my highest and best use. I was not touching or helping enough people. I was too much of a problem.
I can completely understand. Did you see someone that had done this before, or was there a mechanism in place that allowed you to just jump out there? How did you go about leaving corporate?
I, still being the conservative accountant, was the lead to a really small firm because they had a business plan of I’m trying to grow to 20 to 50. I need someone who trains, who thinks strategic, and who isn’t just trying to tick and tie. Accountants are like other entrepreneurs. They love their baby. Even if we think we are, we’re not always open to someone else’s growth. Even though we hit every milestone, their comfort level was, “Just keep doing the work. No, don’t grow any bigger.” I said, “Time for another week.”
Serving The “Upper Middle Class” & Balancing Life’s Priorities
I definitely followed the typical path of creating a CPA firm. There are models out there that are successful, and we know what they are. My hurdle has been that I did not want the traditional type of CPA firm. Even finding someone to do a website for me was very difficult. I couldn’t get them to comprehend, “You just need people to come in and you’re doing the tax returns. You crank. No, I’m not H&R Block.” They’re great for what they are, but that’s not sure. It was the bigger firms that their whole function is, “I need someone extremely wealthy who’s going to need me all year long.” I’m doing a different league, by the way.
I’d love to hear it.
My niche had been for the past 10 or 15 years is what I call the upper-middle class. You’re no longer living check to check, but you also don’t make enough to stop working. The tax law doesn’t work in your favor. You’re not working for, and you’re also not wealthy enough to have lobbyist groups on your behalf. Serving in that middle of, how do I make sure I’m doing what I need to do and that I’m not crazy? My first conversation usually with these types of clients is “You’re not crazy.” The first thing they think is I’ve got to be doing something wrong.
This cannot be this hard. “What am I doing wrong?” I’m like, “Usually it’s nothing. You are in this stuffy middle. You make too much and not enough. The laws are just not created for your benefit.” Almost once they get to at least understanding that they’re not doing something wrong, they can at least move forward. Now, to answer your question, there weren’t a ton of models that way. I didn’t want to do a billable hour model, which most CPA firms and law firms do. I wanted to use the fee, and I wanted to work with my clients together and enjoy their successes with them.
Let’s go back to that middle part, or let’s just say the middle-income clients that you work with. How do you balance planning for the future but then living for the day or today?
Are you all familiar with this story or analogy? I’m not. I’m sure I’m not using the right terminology of the person walking on the beach and they see just thousands of starfish.
Yeah. She’s one of our guests who talked about that. Yeah, Jennifer Williams.
I think that is just critical. You will help that one. You cannot do everything to everybody and find that comfort level and realize that that’s not what life is about. You have to do them both. We as women, have a really hard time with that.
Talk about that a little bit more, though, Cecily.
I will. Let the sky fall. It says you can balance your ideals and still have a fulfilling life. My perfect example is that I’m a tree hugger. I care about the environment, and I drive a gas. That’s what always happens.
You got it. Honestly, if I remember, you’re from Detroit.
I’m from Detroit. I love big cars. I enjoy them. I think they’re fun. If I got to work all day, I’m going to drive some of my life, but I also recycle. You should see the big stack of scrap paper near my printer.
Me too. I think that’s perfectly balanced.
Do your part where you can.
My son, “Why are you taking twenty minutes in the shower?”
How old is your son?
He’s 13.
They don’t care about the length of a shower until they are paying their own bill, but it just will never, no matter what you say, until they pay their own water bill. That’s cool. Tell us, was there ever a moment in your journey? You obviously have made this transition and been very successful at it. We know that just personally working with you. Were you ever considering giving up or not pivoting? What kept you going because I know that it’s an arduous process in entrepreneurship.
Beyond Survival: Personal & Professional Growth
This ties into part of what you were asking, Sylvia, about how do you plan for the future and function today. How do you do self-care? All those times that things weren’t going the way that you wanted to go and now I’m staying up too late were always times when I thought, “Why am I doing this?” This is a common thought and process, and we all think it rings a long because, specifically, I don’t know when this is going to air, but on April 19th, I am doing a presentation along with some other professionals. The presentation is called Moving Beyond Survival.
It’s a sad April 19th from 9:00 to 2:00. It’s a quarterly series. It’s very much focused on “Are you tired of just being tired?” There are mental health pieces. There are physical pieces. There are financial health pieces. I loved. There’s a quote that I’ve now decided to put in just about everything. It’s like, “Look, you’re not depressed, you’re broke.” All this stuff is intertwined. We like to think of them as silos. That’s why we’re doing these types of events. The times that I thought about “Why am I doing this? I need to go do something else.”
I realized that even when I was working for someone else, I was still putting in the same amount of time. I’m still committed to quality, care for people, and doing what I need to do. I take it as a compliment. The last time I had a full-time job with another company was when I decided it was time for me to go.
I had three people come into my office and close the door with tears in their eyes, saying, “Please don’t leave, because you want us to be successful in whatever we want to do. Sure, in our firm, because that’s the line you have to say that, but you cared about us doing what we needed to do to be successful.” What keeps me going is in whatever I’m doing, I don’t want to do it anymore. How do I shift it? My whole goal in moving forward and in almost any transition I’ve ever done, some people do it with intent. “This is where I want to be.”
I think we need to let people know that there’s also room for sometimes you make decisions because where you don’t want to be. Sometimes I’m going, “I ain’t doing that, or I don’t want I don’t see that so we’re going to go here.” I’m just getting to the point where I recognize, like I said, the things that I’m good at and capable at that doesn’t necessarily mean that that’s what I should be doing going forward. I’m defining it with intent instead of with exception, if that makes sense.
Can you talk about how you shifted initially from being, I’m going to call it, a worker bee or cog in the wheel to having an entrepreneurial mindset?
That’s a great question, Sylvia. I think I’ve thought quite a bit, and I had a hard time answering that. I will tell you why. It’s because the process of planning, being strategic, and looking forward is hindered in a profession that is so detail-oriented. I’ve been trying to spend more time working on than working in.
Say again for our readers, I like that.
I’ve been trying to spend much more time working on my business instead of in my business. That is a challenge when you are in a detailed, deadline-oriented field like the taxes that we control. Even with a team, a detail is wrong. It matters.
It costs somebody money.
A Pivot: Teaching & Building Financial Capacity
Cost clients and everything else. That’s that anybody’s perfect. There’s no way we’re going to catch everything. As the entrepreneur, the buck stops with me. My name is the one being signed. My current leap and pivot is teaching and growing the capacity within the field versus me being the one who has to do it. No matter how big my team got, I could not get out of the details. That was very frustrating. I could not put as much of the entrepreneurial mindset hat on that I want to and enjoy. I know that didn’t answer your question.
In light of what you just shared, can you expound upon what this new venture is going to look like for you?
Absolutely, happy to. As I said, I’m successfully well to the accountant you can understand. That is trademarked. The accountant, you can understand. It’s very intentional because I care about people. The world cares about money. I figured the more people who know about money, the better the world will be. This pivot is building knowledge and building capacity. I will be teaching courses, webinars, etc., specifically to nonprofits. Remember, we talked about you still want to be an artist way back when. Nonprofits are an area where they are absolutely about to get targeted for compliance. Most people who enter that field are in the field because they want to do the work. They’re like, “I need to do a what, a who?”
They’re do-gooders, too.
Speaking, writing, teaching, and on-demand and specific webinars within that space. In addition to speaking, writing, and teaching webinars in the space of taxation matters. All of us like to go “La la la or Warren Buffett did. I don’t know what the hell.” I don’t know what Warren Buffett’s pattern has to do with how you’re operating. It’s nice to know, but that doesn’t fit you. I’d like to think of it like Suze Orman talks about investments. Dave Ramsey talks about budgeting. Nobody talks about taxation in English in that it matters. Anything you care about, I can tell you where it is in the tax law and why.
Nobody talks about taxation in English in that it matters. Share on XI can give you some language to call your congressman, write a letter, what to pay attention to, would not. Everything about conservation easements, environmental stuff, tax law, all of it, everything. Over the past twenty years, almost anything that gets passed gets passed through the tax law. Nothing else ends up getting passed. There’s so much economic movement that happens in tax law. That’s where the pivot is. Not doing the detailed ticking in time. “No, I’m not the person to do your return anymore, but I do have connections to firms that that’s what they do. I’m happy to help them grow.”
Taxation In Plain English: Explaining What Matters
Sorry, I’m going to take a little off-center question here. My hope of us ever going to a very simple, simplistic tax system is not realistic, is what you’re saying?
It is an urban myth that we in the profession like complexity. We don’t, either. I would like to be able to plan better and have some certainty when we are talking to people doing financial planning. This profession within some of the silos has spent the past 3 1/2 years talking to clients about update your estate plan and the laws are going to change and flip the expiration at the end of 2000, in the 25 or 26. Tons and tons of time, effort, research, getting clients to make changes, etc. Now we have a new administration that nobody was expecting. That’s probably not going to happen. We still can only say we probably have no idea. To make it simpler, I always just ask the question. It’s like, “Can we have a flat tax?” “Great.”
Who do you think that benefit is?
Here’s the question. “Just math.” Flat tax means this percent on a number. Tell me what that number is.
It’s income.
How do you define income? If I say income is a W-2, then I’m to have these people pay me on something called a 1099. If I had to say income is money, then I’m going to only do it via bartering. The way the tax law is currently written, the reason it’s so complex is that it’s all about exceptions. The tax law basically says, “Anything you make is taxed. Nothing is deductible. Done. Everything in the tax law is well, except for.”
Tax law impacts everything. Share on XIt’s because people lobby for those exceptions.
Precisely. That’s how it keeps getting more complicated. As soon as Congress passes, capital gains are going to be taxed and capital gains are going be taxed at a preferred rate. Suddenly, people started calling interest capital gains. You’re like, “What the?” They just changed the name. It keeps getting more and more complicated. The people who can afford attorneys and professionals to follow the law, I’m not saying that they’re paying all of them. There are some people who came to come up with stuff, but they’d rather pay their attorneys and accountants $30,000 than pay the IRS $60. I would love for it to be simple.
We’re going to get out of the weeds a little bit and talk about entrepreneurship. Is there something that you wish you had known before you initially opened your own firm?
Entrepreneurial Lessons: Mistakes & Insights
I can think of two things, probably. The first is the difficulty of finding the right fit for people to work with you and for you. Talent acquisition. I was talking to another entrepreneur, and she has an unwritten rule. She will not hire anyone who has not been an entrepreneur on their own before.
She understands someone who understands your flight.
The concept of finishing is different for someone who’s an entrepreneur than someone who has worked in a corporate job.
It can leave at five and come back the next day.
They’ll go, “My computer’s not turning on. Figure it out. That’s what I have to do. You come to me for help. I’m not an IT department. I might not, but I figure it out. Take it to completion.” Like, “The client asks for this.” “Find the answer.” Finding people who talent acquisition and people who are responsible for what they’re doing instead of helping in what they’re doing.
Many people that they’re helping you. “I don’t need your help. I need you to be responsible for it. Take it over the finish line.” The second thing that I knew very well because of the industry that I’m in, but 99% of entrepreneurs just don’t know this. Your business is different than your personal. You have a ton of different rules. It is irrelevant if you’ve made money or lost money. If you decided to function this year, didn’t function this year.
By becoming a business, you’ve created obligations that most people don’t know that they created. There should be something, somewhere, that says, I need to have $5,000 to $10,000 to cover accounting, bookkeeping, tax attorney, whether I’m making money or not making money, just the start. All of these different government entities assume everything you’re supposed to do. No, there’s no connectivity. The secretary of state doesn’t talk to the IRS. He doesn’t talk to the county, who doesn’t talk to the Department of Labor, who doesn’t talk to sales tech. No. You need to know this.
That definitely doesn’t sound like it’s going to get any better for you.
I don’t think so, but I’m all about if someone has figured out how to build a better mousetrap and that’s their strength, I am happy to learn. Part of the leap is letting go of what I’m capable of but don’t want to do. I don’t enjoy it. It’s not my highest and best use. I’m capable. I want to help other people be capable if that makes sense.
As a woman entrepreneur in this finance space, how have you net navigated spaces where maybe you were underestimated in what you can do or maybe just outnumbered with those in the market along with you?
Strategies To Navigating Gender & Underestimation
Thank you for asking me that. I will say that in accounting, for a long time, I was specifically in a niche that was all high net worth estate planning. I was always the only woman in the room. Always the only. I cannot even say only Black person and only non-White at all. It was just very normal. That wasn’t what bothered me. I didn’t feel like I didn’t belong in those spaces. It’s just not an area that a lot of people go into. I’m the person who gets offended and upset. How do you think I’m not supposed to be here versus any type of self-doubt? I think that ties to Sylvia, like you said. I’m a native Detroit.
I grew up in a Black city with a lot of educated people. You certainly had tons of positives and negatives. “This I agree with you. I don’t disagree with you. What are you saying? You’re an idiot. Why? Why not?” It had nothing to do with my gender or my race. Nothing. You just had those conversations. Everyone respected what you had to say. They disagreed with what you were saying, not who was saying. The first time I worked outside of that area, and the first time I didn’t know that that’s why they were second-guessing what I was saying, I was floored. I just said that the first time someone else repeated what I said, “I just said that three hours ago. I was so confused.”
That is so annoying.
It never happened to me before, even. It took me a long time to figure out that that’s what it was because it’s not direct. Some of the tools that I decided that I’m going to use are “Know what I want the world to be, but accept how the world is. How do I get what I need?” I can be mad all I want, but I need to get credit for this. I have in some of my leadership positions as a chair, as whatever there was a gentleman who was the administrator or something, a younger White guy. I would ping him. “I need you to send an email that says, Cecily, we just said that.” It’s because I cannot say it. It comes off as me being arrogant or boasting or we just had a big planning meeting and we all agreed on this, somehow when I bring it up, “You’re being offensive.”
The common thread of those who are financially successful is calculated risks. Share on XIt also sounds like you had a relationship with this guy, and you were confident enough or whatever the word is, you can be like, “Alex” or whatever his name was. “I’m going to need you to send that out again.” Alex would comply.
We can sit here and act like that is so atrocious and awful, but it is real.
It is awful. How do you move forward without functioning as the world is? It’s like the civil rights movement. There is no question. When you look at the history books, like the eleven publishing again, “Rosa Parks was not the first person who refused to get up out of her seat.” You have to pick who people are going to rally behind. It’s not right. It’s not fair, but it is.
That’s what it is. Agreed.
What advice would you give to someone who is feeling pulled to entrepreneurship?
I would let them know that just about every entrepreneur you’ve ever met has had starts and stops.
I like that.
Do not think of those necessarily as a failure. I never felt like a successful entrepreneur. It is doing these types of talks and someone talking to me, “I guess. That wasn’t bad.” I’m perpetually unhappy with where I am and what I’m doing. I’m perpetually feeling like I should have done better. I’m perpetually thinking I could have made a better decision.
That promotes growth.
I appreciate your saying that. Sometimes I wish I could follow the advice that I tell my clients, which is, we just said, “I’ve got all these letters after my name. Yeah.” I have bounced a check. It is all okay.
My mind is blown. I’m like, “What? Not Cecily.”
I’m going, “What the F***?”
It wasn’t your fault, though. It couldn’t have been your fault.
No, totally, but because I also know I am never going to be perfect, and we live in a financial world. I’ve also made sure I keep relationships with banks and specific banks. I’m currently in what used to be a small bank, they’re now a mid-sized bank. When that’s happened, because it’s happened more than once, I will get a phone call. They’ll say, “Before we turn this back, can you let me fix it?” “Let me fix it.”
To save me the embarrassment, whatever the case is, because they were like, “I know you just forgot to do something.” “I did. I’m sorry.” The one time I was buying something out and I wrote a check much bigger than I normally would and they didn’t refuse it, but they called, “You’ve never seen this check before.” Let entrepreneurs know it is okay to make mistakes. You are going to make mistakes. When you make a mistake, you cannot pull back and pivot. The only person who’s going to beat you up about it is yourself.
Choosing The Right Bank: Entrepreneurial Advice
Going back just a couple beats, can I ask a question in terms of yourself as an entrepreneur? I think you said you chose to bank with a smaller bank. Is that advice that you would give to any entrepreneur just for that relationship you mentioned?
Yes. I’m a small person. I need to be with a small bank. I can think of my money as big all I want. When I walk into Bank of America, whatever. They couldn’t care less about me. Their standard stuff is that this is how we do things. They don’t make exceptions. They don’t do things like I’ve gotten weird out-of-state checks or crazy stuff. I’ve driven through and dropped it in. The lady goes, “It’s going to be a hole,” except because that’s their policy.
It wasn’t the branch that I would go to. She didn’t know me by face. I was in the restaurant, and I was like, “Whatever, I’ll call them later.” Within 30 minutes, my branch called me, “We saw you made a deposit. It’s fine. It’s no hold.” Within that, it meets your needs, and what I mean by that is in my experience, Credit Unions are great personal banks. They’re not great business. They just don’t have the functionality and flexibility. I could be wrong, but so far. That has been the case. I’m a fan of small banks.
I’m going to go one step further. As an entrepreneur and for business for those women out there, how do you choose? I’m not necessarily asking you to name your bank, but how do you choose? There are a lot of banks, and how do we know how to choose a smaller bank?
It’s a little more difficult now because there are so few branches compared to what it used to be. I would ask your accountants, other entrepreneurs, and your attorneys who they bank with and if they like them or don’t like them because you will get an earful. They will tell you flat out when stuff is going wrong, and almost all of them will list the big banks. “Don’t do this.” It’ll almost be a process of elimination. In your neighborhood and community where you live and where you work, look at those banks that you never looked at before that you drive past all the time.
Remember, these banks don’t have the marketing money to tell you that they’re fabulous. I bet you if you walk in, “How can I help you? What’s going on?” I’ve sent pictures of the inside of my bank before, which is supposed to be legal. My bank was like, “Sure.” My son’s to have an account, and they know my name. They were like, “Yes, it’s fine. I wanted to show them. You’re fine. This is what you need to do. People know you. and like you.” Just like your clients, people know and like you. It’s the same way.
A lot of it is word of mouth. Great advice. Thank you. I appreciate that. Cecily, as we continue to talk, I guess what I’m wondering is if there is something that if we focus on people who are middle income, not enough money to be super rich, but certainly not poor? What are some things that we should be thinking about doing, especially from an estate perspective, if there’s one or two things?
Estate Planning Essentials: More Than Just A Will
From an estate perspective, first, I hate the term estate. I know that that’s what the word estate planning. The connotation implies wealth. When it’s “You’re going to die. I’m going to die. We’re all going to die. That’s what happened. What do you want to happen?” Do not let the expectation that I got to get it absolutely right stop you from making plans. It feels so final and horrible. What if you’re absolutely right? If you don’t write something down the right way, there is an estate plan for you. It’s just the state’s estate plan. There is one. One exists.
That’s probate, correct?
No. Yes, you would have to go through probate, but even if you have an estate plan, you might still be going through probate. What I mean is if you have absolutely nothing written, Georgia, for example, I think this is still the room. I’m going to use my family as an example, the three of us. My husband, myself, and my son. Let’s say we didn’t write anything down, and I quote, “It gets divided between the spouse and the child.
It doesn’t automatically all go to the spouse. If it was seven of us, me, my husband, and we had six children. There’s a requirement that the surviving spouse has to get at least one-third, but the other third is split among the six children.” I assure you, I would not want my five-year-old getting any inheritance yet. That’s what the law is. Yes, the law is a minor, so they should have someone who is overseeing them. It does not have to be my spouse.
The court gets to decide. Regardless of your “wealth” level, think about what you want and make sure it is in writing in the proper writing. I both love and hate the current commercial that’s out there for, I think it’s Trust and Will’s. I love it because it’s this whole sensitive time and moment. When I die, I want you to have this card, and it’s so much and your grandmother wants. This guy pops out of nowhere. “No, it doesn’t count.” I love that. I hate that they’re like, “You can do it online.” It’s a do something no matter what you have or if you don’t have.
Please write something down. The second thing is to tell somebody your family does not need to know your intimate financial details. I understand that, but they do need to know you have several accounts. “They’re here, they’re there. Here’s what my plan is and what my documents say. Such and such is the executor.” There have been so many family fights because “Mom owned all these houses, and she said I can have all.”
No, the bank owned all those houses. There were mortgages on them. There were these. Nothing wrong with that. People’s impression of what they think versus what the actual facts are. A lot of times, those people who are in the middle and just starting to make it out probably are getting to the point where you’re starting to have assets, but they’re encumbered by debt. Not saying that that’s poor planning. It’s a plan. I know that I’m getting a mortgage on this house. I know that I’m getting this.
I know that I’m still paying off my student loans. I know that I’m about to start paying for college. You’re investing in stuff. It doesn’t look like you’re upside down, but you’re upside down for a while. If people don’t know that, they think someone has done something wrong when it’s the last surviving parent, and the child who’s been taking care of the parent uses all the assets to pay for the parent’s fare. The other kid’s like, “You spent all of mom’s money, you spent all of dad’s money.” “It cost him, right on mom.”
That is wonderful advice. Can I just add that it’s important for us when we’re making those plans and determinations and estate planning to make sure it stays updated because the plan that you had ten years ago may change based on the dynamics in the family or wealth or whatever that’s currently happening. That’s great advice.
Estate Planning Execution: Practical Tips
Also, know that that’s another area that is not going to be perfect, but please do something. There are so many things that change constantly. The standard estate document package includes a will, potentially a living trust, power of attorney, power of healthcare, etc., in various ways. It’s worded depending on your state, but because financial institutions, banks, investment, both firms, etc., have been getting sued so much and in trouble so much, a lot of them have started not accepting standard documents.
You have to have. I don’t know this bank specifically, but Wells Fargo requires you to have Wells Fargo’s power of attorney. Bank of America said, “You have to have Bank of America’s power of attorney.” Thank you. I have no clue how people are supposed to execute this, but if you don’t use someone who’s in the industry, if you don’t use an estate attorney, they won’t be up on those changes. The estate attorney isn’t making up the complexity just because it’s the fun thing to do. It’s pissed them off too, but they got it too.
They were like, “It’s a power of attorney.” I had a heated discussion with an estate attorney who had been drawing up my mother’s information. She had me on the call with him because, of course, I was my mother’s financial permanent. He was adamant that “Miss Nash, you can just do a power of attorney.” I said, “Excuse me, have you ever tried to execute a power of attorney?”
Once I have 100% of the information, it's too late. That opportunity is gone. Share on XHe said, “You just.” I said, “No.” With your clients, when they become incapacitated, because a power of attorney is no longer valid when someone dies anyway. There’s a whole different type of document, but let’s assume that she’s alive and things aren’t going well, and I need to go to the bank on her behalf. I kept asking him, “Have you ever tried to do that?” You can just say, “No.” Pragmatically doing it. I’m not saying what the document says.
I’m saying go to the bank with one of your clients one day and try and let them execute something on the power of attorney. They won’t do it. You have got to scream, holler, and I know what the legal documents says, but they’re still in control of doing this. Long story short, we opted to do payable-on-death accounts and also some joint accounts. Therefore, there’s nothing the bank can do. My name is on it.
Just finishing that process.
Let me clarify because I said that. Talk to someone before there are multiple ways of putting your name on an account. When you just walk into a bank and go, “I’m trying to help out mom.” They’ll go, “Let me put your name on the account.” You want to have advice and someone telling you which way to do it. There’s a payable on death. There’s a transfer on death. There’s putting your name on it so you can write checks on it or not. All of those have estate consequences or plans by people who go, “I’m just going to put my name on my mom’s deed.” It’s a very bad idea. The people at the office like, “Sure, here.”
Cecily, you’re going down roads. I need to explore a little bit further. Why is that a bad idea?
That’s considered giving you a gift. When your name gets added to your mom’s account, your dad’s account, whatever as a signer, etc. Generally speaking, that’s considered a gift. Also, you now jointly own an account as it’s earning interest, dividends, stock, etc. It’s yours now. It is possible that it is not like you all came to an agreement that it’s not, but you then put yourself in a position of proving the negative. I’m like, “The account says it’s your name. What?” Also, there are so many types of ownership and a piece of paper, and the little rectangle is only so big. It won’t have the full name of John Doe, Jane Urquhart. It’s the vibe ship that it’s not going to have. You never really know what it is. The person who’s helping at the bank is advised to open an account.
We need a part two.
Advocacy Vs. Mentorship: Women Supporting Women
We may need to do a series with you, as you’re doing your new series every quarter or so. On task with what we’re trying to build here is you sharing women’s stories, which yours is beautiful. You’re clearly a leader in your field. What’s your opinion? How can women leaders better support other women?
I think we, as a gender, can do a better job of accepting reality. What we were just talking about, Angela, you said, “That’s horrible”. We all know that you shouldn’t have to get someone else to say something, but the fact is that you do. We don’t do a great job of letting other women know that and respecting that and dealing with that. We want it to be a fair world so badly that we end up doing the same things. We hold someone to a different standard. When we get into a room, we need to be in that room.
Otherwise, what’s the point? When we can hear some of those microaggressions, we need to be the ones that kick somebody on the table. “Did I just hear you when you said,” even if you say it in the innocent way, “Couldn’t have been what you just said.” I was once in one of the executive committee meetings when we were just in, it was a very confidential meeting. They were discussing the cost of healthcare out of crime. One of the partners said, “We need to just quit higher LM, and they keep getting pregnant.”
He said that?
I was trying to get school. The way that our meetings were, you could say anything. That was the whole point.
It was open.
I just said, “Wait a minute. First off, it’s all you male partners with wives who keep having kids. Your wife is staying at home. You got three, you got two. Second, there were multiple guys that year. One guy had a pacemaker that had to be put in. Another guy must’ve thought he was twenty again and blew out his knee, but you keep. You’re conveniently not thinking of those as impacting our healthcare costs. Stop. That is not an applicable excuse not to hire women. The women here are plan their pregnancies around what’s going on because they are so committed to wanting to fulfill this job here.”
It’s not that women need more mentors. Women need advocates. I need someone in the room because I’m not in the room. I need someone else in the room, they male, female, whoever that goes, this potential partner list or this permit potential promotion list. “Why are there any women listed?” Someone needs to say that who’s in the room and having as many mentors as you like. If you’re not my advocate in that room screaming for me, okay. As a woman, we cannot scream for ourselves because it’s viewed negatively.
Especially a black woman.
It’s such a challenge finding a leadership style. The leadership books don’t necessarily fit. I remember one of my partners was bringing me in on a high-end client. The first thing he did was say, “I always hire people smarter than me. She’s great.” I’m like, “Thank you. He set me up to succeed.” I cannot do that to somebody else. I cannot use self-deprecating. I could never say, “I hire people smarter than me or, don’t pay me.” I cannot do that. How do I get people to relax in a room when I cannot use the leadership styles that are being taught?
Successful people put all their eggs in one basket, or maybe two, and then once the baskets are full, then you diversify. Share on XYou’re very much about practicality. I love that. It’s real. These are just really good lessons in that I’m sure I’ll butcher it, but we can operate in a world where we have this rainbow and bubbles type of idealistic ideology in terms of how the world should be. We need to know how the world currently is where our current situation. I think you’ve given us dropped pearls all throughout the interview. I’m just curious with all that you do for everyone else and we hear family also, your son and your husband, how do you practice self care?
I will directly say, “I am stuck.” I will also directly say that when choosing your circle, your ride or die, it’s important to have people who tell you when you’re wrong and point you in the right direction. I have a circle of people who are more frustrated at me than I am at myself that I have not been doing a good job of it. Because of my personality, I’m trying to hold my feet to the fire so that I don’t disappoint them more than even myself.
Sometimes, that’s what it takes. I need to be accountable, and it’s to them. As I mentioned, that’s part of why we’re having that event, the moving beyond survival. How do you put practicality into the real-life part of it is never going to be perfect. You’re never going to have all the money that you need, all the perfect physical health that you need, all of the family dynamics that you want. How do you still move forward? Not always, I’m not. “Great. I bring it as a thing for other people.”
You’re great at so many things. Cecily, the Moving Beyond Survival, is that open to the public? If someone wanted to sign up, is it in person or virtual? Tell us more about that and how we can do that.
Thank you for asking. Currently, it’s in person. We’re working on figuring out how to do it virtual. It’s just go to TheWelchCenter.com. There’s an event page. TheWelchCenter.com, where Welch stands for Wellness Equals Lasting Capital and Health. We’re trying to do wellness and capital, and it’s $35 for 5 hours or 6 hours and food, lunch.
That’s a bargain.
That’s wonderful.
It’s really meaningful. It was interesting. As I said, I’m one of the multiple speakers at this. I kept sneaking in on other ones.
Love it. Very nice. That sounds like something that I would love to attend. I will keep my eye on that. We cannot thank you enough for sharing all your wisdom with us. Part of what I like to talk about in HealthStyle is the four prongs of our health. Mental health is the number one. Physical health, emotional health, and, I add on that, financial health, because if your finances are in the pits, then it does affect everything else. You are speaking a language that a lot of us need to learn. We truly appreciate what you’re doing. Speaking to a larger audience, I completely get that. Your stuff, but you just have that calling to share it with others. I appreciate what you’re doing and look forward to seeing more of what you have to offer.
Thank you. I have to say, though, you all are doing exactly the same with this show as well as Hold On A Second. Thank you for this show as well. I’m so excited about the book. I’m hoping to find you personally, Sylvia, because I need you to sign two copies. I have a cousin who is entering medicine, and I have one that’s already in, and I just know.
Thank you.
Both of those young ladies will absorb the game plan and go, “My God.”
We’re coming up on our second anniversary, so we’ll have a show dedicated to that. Thank you, Cecily. You were a large part of helping us with that CPA piece. We’re very grateful to you for your advice.
That’s a huge lift. That is just amazing, guys.
Thank you again for all of your pearls. May you be well.
Thank you so much, Sylvia. Thank you, Angela. I appreciate the invite, and I had a great time.
Always. Thank you. May you be well.
Angela, we had such a rich conversation with Cecily. She left us with, no pun intended, a wealth of ideas. My favorite takeaway from Cecily is certainly, she is the accountant you can understand. She has trademarked that, but all of her advice was pragmatic and direct and I definitely appreciate that. One of the other things I want to mention is that she is from Detroit. For all our readers and viewers and subscribers from Detroit, Cecily is from the D, and she’s the hippiest capitalist. I love it because me being from California and have some perhaps hippie tendencies, if we can say that, definitely toward making sure that the environment is taken care of, and I do recycle. Yet, I do have a muscle car, too. I probably always will express it.
I will.
What take-homes resonated with you?
There was so much I, as you can hear in the interview, ask a lot of personal questions that were applied to me, which read by so I hope that our audience will glean some of that information. I took some on a personal note from an entrepreneur standpoint because she did share a lot of her experience going from being in the corporate world to going out on her own. This is the importance of working on your business, not just in your business.
You can get tied down in the mundane, even as you’re building a business, and not realize what your perspective should be at least part of the time. Working on your business is not necessarily just about being the busy bee. It’s important to put the extra time in for the particulars in your business. That was one. The other one I liked was that she was very pragmatic in the way she approaches life, which I like. She has been practical in which she gives practical advice.
Knowing what you want the world to look like but accepting it for what it is now and operating in the now. That’s just key. What I get frustrated about sometimes is talking about how unfair things are and harping on that point without talking about practical solutions and working towards the solution and making a difference in the problem.
I can use maternal morbidity and mortality as an example of how talking about the problem is so important that we’ve sounded the alarm to know there’s still an ongoing overabundance of maternal morbidity and mortality in the US compared to all other wealthy nations. More importantly, in the black community, 3 times to 4 times as high. We can say that over and over again.
What can I tell you that before we fix all of the problem, what you can do in your life and being the healthiest you can be before you approach pregnancy and how to combat some of the risk factors that might be involved to make your pregnancy healthy. That’s from my perspective and part of what I’d like to share, but just being practical about what we’re currently living in, but also giving some practical advice on how to move forward, if that makes sense. A little bit redundant there.
No, that is great. My paper is full. I always take notes during our Boss Leap conversations. I have just a ton of things that she shared. I’m excited for our readers to hear the full interview and to go back and read other interviews. Looks like we’re doing a bit of a block on finances.
Which is good. I cannot get enough of it. I’m going to add that I thought just from what she spoke about was practical for all income levels. She spoke about the importance of having a financial plan from the very beginning to the upper levels of income, which I think is so important.
Just getting advice because even if your income isn’t exactly where you want it to be, you still need that pragmatic advice on, how do I do things? How do I set up an account? A state plan for example, she spent a lot of time talking about like your family member’s bank account and how do you want to be listed on that. That’s just practical.
That was a lot.
It was. Some of it was about to sail over my head. Again, my take-home is you need to have reliable. In our world, we say evidence-based information, but we need to know what the rule is at this moment. We need to be prepared to pivot when the rule changes and having that information. Your dad’s book is an example, his notebook with all the information. As he updated his estate, that information was in there and readily available.
It’s a gift to your family. This is a great episode. We look forward to more information coming from Cecily in the future. To our audience, we’re grateful that you’re here with us and along for the journey. If you have anything that you would love for us to talk about or anything that you’d love to share, please reach out to us. Our website is BossLeapPodcast.com. Please share the podcast with your friends and family and on YouTube.
Share, subscribe, and follow.
Share with us. Until we meet again, may you be well.
May you be well.
Important Links
- Cecily Welch
- Welch Financial Advisors
- Cecily Welch on LinkedIn
- Cecily Welch on Facebook
- Cecily Welch on X
- Jennifer Williams
- Moving Beyond Survival
- YouTube
- The Welch Center
- Boss Leap on Youtube
About Cecily Welch
Although everyone needs advice and service regarding their finances, Welch Financial Advisors (WFA) specializes in working with families and individuals with financial complexities, including the self-employed, small businesses owners, and women of wealth. Those who earn between $200K and $1M annually have accomplished so much and yet most aren’t confident in their financial choices. Whether your income is derived from your job, from investments, from an inheritance, or from your business, wouldn’t it be great to know the critical financial areas are being addressed and taken care of?
Welch Financial Advisors helps clients organize their financial life and develop the building blocks to improve their financial well-being. Because each client defines financial well-being differently we seek to ensure each client is heard and understood. For those who have financial complexities but do not have enough assets to warrant a separate, dedicated professional for each financial segment, WFA can provide an integrated approach to understanding their financial life.
By starting with tax compliance and planning, WFA works with clients to understand how the financial segments of taxes, retirement, estate, insurance, investments, and their business are interdependent and intertwined.