True wellness is a lifelong evolution, moving far beyond physical fitness and into the realms of mental, spiritual, and emotional peace. In this transparent check-in, Dr. Sylvia Morris and Dr. Angela Walker pull back the curtain on their own wellness journeys, from the sleep-deprived survival tactics of residency to the intentional “fullness” of their lives today. Together, they discuss the power of non-negotiable morning routines, the weight of being a caregiver, and how to recognize the quiet warning signs our bodies give us before they start to yell. From the restorative power of the shoreline to the relatable honesty of a late-night McDonald’s run, this episode explores what it truly means to stay well in a world that never stops moving.
Music courtesy of Dealer’s Choice Sound Recordings, Inc.
Music artist: djezi
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Watch the episode here
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Defining Wellness: What Does Staying Well Mean to You?
We are talking about how we stay well. If you have been a frequent reader, you know that our last question is about self-care. We have talked about in previous episodes our self-care regimens. There’s a lot of things that are going on in the world. We just want to do a quick check-in on how we stay well. We’re going to be honest and as transparent as possible. Angela, are you ready?
As ready as I’m going to be.
We were born ready.
This was your idea.
We are on this journey together. Let’s first start off with something that in our episode 67 with Samantha Dorisca talked about. How’s your heart, Angela?
Checking in on the Heart
My heart is good. My people are relatively well. My mom is still recovering but all of my people, family, friends are well. I am, as we say, full. My schedule is full. I’m not busy but full.
Life is full.
I am very present in the moment. I’m grateful to be here in this moment with you. Being able to talk about wellness in general, knowing even what wellness means to me. There was a time where I didn’t know what that meant. How about you?
My heart is full. I’m feeling very grateful. I had a busy day at work. Sometimes, we can get caught up into the busyness. One of my coworkers said to me, “How are you doing?” It was one of those genuine, how are you doing? In that moment, I was able to say, “There’s a lot going on. The only thing constant is change.” I’m navigating this and I was pretty candid about it. At this point in my career, there are some changes that I wasn’t expecting. I was hoping that I had evolved beyond the drama of work. I was so happy and grateful that she was like, “How are you?” I felt safe enough to just say.
The only thing constant is change. Share on XIt’s those small moments. I can reflect on this also. I got to work. There was a big bag of pretzels on my desk. Not just any pretzels, there were white chocolate and those little sprinkles. I would never have picked those, ever. I just would never have picked those. The note that came with it was from a patient that I had seen before. You know how it is. I guess no matter what you do in life, in terms of work, when you’re appreciated for what you do, you realize it just reinforces why you do it, and hopefully the way that you do it.
You matter.
It was just such a beautiful acknowledgement of what I meant in just a simple visit, of paying attention and listening.
You were just doing what you do naturally.
In that moment, I was doing it well. It’s because of that, I opened the bag of pretzels. They were actually really good. I proceeded to share because I can’t do that whole thing of going down, spiraling down and eating a whole bag of chocolate-covered pretzels. It was just the stopping to be present in the moment. Someone acknowledges that they needed to check in on you. This was someone that was just acknowledging my presence. That was very nice.
The Evolution of Wellness: From Med School to Now
How would you say wellness has changed for you or evolved from when we were in med school?
In med school, wellness meant always trying to get sleep. Sleep has never been one of those things that I prioritize.
It’s a non-negotiable.
It’s not like I got it. I don’t want to say that but I didn’t try to prioritize it. The definition of wellness back then was how well I was managing my schedule. Whether it was the studying, then the kids, taking care of things around the house for my husband, and managing it all. That was how I was doing it well. I always did something. It used to be running. It was just getting it in the schedule. For me, wellness is trying to manage the schedule but really taking care of myself through prayer and meditation and relationships. It’s also investing in my relationships and as we talk, counseling and all of the things that help to maintain mental well-being.
When I think about my wellness journey in med school, I completely fell off in residency. We will talk about that. It was mainly exercise, movement, and getting to the gym. I didn’t think about it because my whole job was to be successful. Meaning, get through this class, this rotation, get to this type of residency. I get this job. It was all about, “What is in service of me getting to the next spot?” Everything was through the lens of “Am I going to feel good or look good or be prepared for X?” It wasn’t just about the being part.
I don’t think we even had a concept of emotional well-being. I’m speaking for myself.
“You better tough up. You got to push through. There’s no crying in baseball.”
Defining Your Season of Wellness
For anyone that’s just finding us, Sylvia, give us a snapshot of your present world such as our career and who you’re caring for. What exactly you’re staying well for even means in this season of your life?
I’m staying well for me. I am a woman of a certain age. It is important that I prioritize my health. Health is not just my vessel and my physical well-being. As we were just talking about, it’s our mental well-being. It’s my spiritual well-being. I’m prioritizing that first. Every day, I think about, “What have I done for me?” I do stuff for the organization that I work for. I do stuff for the show. I do stuff for the people in my life.
Health is not just my vessel and my physical well-being. Share on XWhen we’re talking about being a caregiver. I work with Uncle William. He wouldn’t say that I’m his caregiver. He would say that I invested in him being well, at least that’s what I hope. There are things in place for that. I think of myself as a corporation. There are many facets. We’ve got finance. I work for all of those things to be well. There’s some days where I’m not as good or as attentive to all of the various facets of me. As we have picked up on a saying from Dr. Susan Nicholas, my life is full. I’m quite grateful for it. What does well look for you and a snapshot of your world?
It’s very much similar to yours. I’m working. I’m still seeing patients. I am speaking and do coaching as well. I have a mother who does need caregiving who is very feisty. It is a challenge at times. It is funny at times. I am still very grateful all the time for that. It is another task that was added to a schedule that was already full.
That was not probably on your bingo card.
It’s not like it wasn’t a possibility. I felt like this would potentially be an eventuality, but it wasn’t at this moment in time. I’ve got two adult children. As anyone that has adult kids, you never stop caring and loving and worrying and all of those things. That is part of my well-being journey of letting some of that go or giving it to God. All of those things.
That’s hard.
It’s very hard but it’s a blessing. Not everyone has these challenges in their lives that they might want, or thought that they were going to have. Maybe it was cut short. That’s pretty much what life looks like at present. I have this show with such an amazing co-host. No matter what is going on in life, I look forward to and I’m so grateful for. This keeps me well, mentally and emotionally.
Learning from just beautiful women from all walks of life. We knew what our mission was and what our mission is. It never ceases to amaze me what we are able to uncover in episodes. All these little isms that we take from guests and their words of wisdom into our own lives and make them better. That’s what I’m looking at.
Recognizing the Signals of Un-wellness
When does your body tell you that things are not well? I know for me, if I haven’t slept. I’ve worked 5 or 6 days in a row. I wake up, and I think I’m tired. It’s harder for me to get going during the day. What’s your signal that says, “I’m not well?”
Honest? When I can leave, taking care of my mom and pass by the McDonald’s. I know that there’s something healthy for me at home. I know I’m doing well. When I succumbed to the call of the French fries and the Coke, I know that I need rest.
When you’re sitting in church and the pastor says something, and you squirm and you pew.
I knew that would hit you.
What had happened was, as I talked about earlier, it was just one of those days. I was set up for success because I brought my lunch. I had a cold pack. I had all these wonderful things in there. They had Employee Appreciation Day. They had the nerve to have these fried chicken tender things on one of those Hawaiian rolls. They had fried fish tacos. I had one of each of those.
That had vegetables on it.
There was some iceberg lettuce and maybe a sprinkling of a tomato. I work a twelve-hour day and I’m driving home. There’s the golden arches just flashing at me. I found myself in the drive-through line ordering that large order of fries and the small Coke. I’m thinking about my day. I’m eating my French fries. They were hot and salty.
Were they good?
They’re good. It was worth it and then, I got up, and I walked.
We eat in terms of what we know is best for us. Share on XThere you go. You balanced it. We are evolving into that place where we can’t be perfect in how we move in terms of exercise. We eat in terms of what we know is best for us, and our behaviors in terms of how long we stay on social media when we’ve set a time limit. We’re moving towards the scale of doing it right. As long as we’re still moving in that direction. As we’re talking, trying to figure out, “What could I have done differently that would have made me choose differently?” I don’t know the answer to that.
That’s a good one. I’m going to put a pin on that one. Is there a wellness myth or a wellness practice that perhaps you used to do or something that you aspire to do that you’re like, “That doesn’t fit in my life anymore?”
I don’t know if it’s a myth but running. It was easy. I liked it but just on a couple of occasions, I pulled something. Most likely because I did not do the stretching that I needed to do beforehand. It set me back farther than what I liked in terms of movement in general. I just stick with walking. I can still do enough of it to get the exercise that I need.
I love it. I can appreciate everything, particularly if I’m walking outside, that goes along with it. I still get my weight-bearing exercise in there. Not necessarily the strength training that I need, but I’ve substituted that. I don’t know that I necessarily, quite honestly, know of a myth that I can think of. How about you?
During the pandemic, I stopped going to the gym. I was a huge gym person. Let me give you some color around that. I would go to classes. I would go to barre class which I liked. I’d go to in-person yoga classes. That was how I got my exercises. I never thought I would turn into one of those people that had a personal trainer.
I’m just going to say that Deanna Companion of Companion Wellness. She is fantastic. I am so grateful that we work together very frequently, ideally once a week. I never thought I would give up my barre class and whatnot. Here I am. I got a personal trainer and I walk. I walk with a weighted vest, which is my newest.
That is my new goal. You walk with the weighted vest. Do you keep it on when you’re doing things around the house?
I have been known to keep it on. I haven’t talked to my physical therapist about that practice but I do. I feel like I’m getting a little extra exercise. It helps me sit up straight. It strengthens my core. We don’t make any recommendations here on Boss Leap. You should talk to your doctor. Talk to your physical therapist before you embark on any new exercise regimen. Only a disclaimer.
Movement, Rest, and Recovery
I’m just saying, if you do it, I’m going to do it. Is there a difference between resting and recovery for you? If so, what does each one look like?
For me, resting is certainly sleep. We know that it is integral to rest. Also, being able to put down the phone, not having the television on.
Do you have one in your room?
I do. I have a TV in my room. That is rest for me. Recovery, I don’t know if this is fortunate or unfortunate. It’s more when I’m on vacation. One of those vacations where it is focused around wellness. I am walking a lot or biking. Walking along the beach is one of my favorite things to do. Being in connection with nature and those things. That is more of recovery. What about you?
Probably similar. Rest is sitting, closing my eyes and breathing in the moment. Separating myself from whatever circumstance that I was in or am going to be in. Resting and obviously, sleep. Recovery is watering myself, eating well, and meal prepping. Planning for that late-night where I’m going to pass by McDonald’s but I know that I’ve prepared something healthy at home. The beach also.
I do those things that you mentioned at the beach. I do go for walks and seashells wherever I am. That’s my favorite. Honestly, when I dream about going to the beach, the only thing that I dream about is laying on the chaise lounge. Some in the sun and some not in the sun. I walk into the waterline and back. That has been over, rinse and repeat. That’s what I dream of. Even that in and of itself is recovery to me, being able to dream about it. I’ve been blessed to have been able to do it.
The Non-Negotiables
There’s something about water that is also recovery for me. As you bring up walking to the shoreline, when the water trickles over your feet, or you just sit there and the waves come up and move out. That is restorative in ways. You’re right. We are quite blessed to have those moments. I look forward to those again. Talk about your non-negotiables for your wellness routine that you protect, even on your busiest weeks. What’s non-negotiable for you?
That first thing in the morning prayer and meditation. Those two are non-negotiable for me. In almost every circumstance, I’m able to do it first thing in the morning no matter what’s going on. That’s because I do not scroll. I do not even look at messages. The only thing is, we do the same thing, a guided meditation from my phone. I have to open the phone to get there. The only thing I’ll look for is to make sure there was nothing from my kids. Other than that, I don’t look at anything else on the phone.
I’m proud of that. It’s made a big difference in how I start my day. It sets the tone for the day. Oftentimes, there’s something that’s in the guided part of the meditation that I needed to hear. It may have been something that was on my heart the night before. It reinforces the fact for me that I’m doing the right thing for myself. How about you?
I’m a big fan of the Calm app and Headspace. Sometimes, it amuses me when you send me the Jay Shetty meditation. It was like, “I agree. I was thinking about that for you as well.” You’re exactly right. It is that first thing after I turn off my alarm clock, I reach down. I pick up my morning meditation that I’m going to read and I move forward from there. That is my non-negotiable.
The other thing is walking on the days that I am not in-person clinical. I always pulled in a walk. I’ve gotten to the point where I walk when it’s 30 degrees outside. As my physical therapist from Bridge Body, “That’s what layers are for.” Now, she’s from Buffalo or Rochester. She’s used to it. I’m an LA girl. It’s too cold under 50 degrees.
I’ve been quite proud of myself that I have been walking. It’s been in the high 30 degrees. I think I’ve mentioned one of my walking neighbors, Miss Jerry. Miss Jerry is probably in her 70s or so, and Charlie the dog. She said to me, “I haven’t seen you in a little while.” I was like, “It was cold. I was working.” She’s like, “Charlie and I were out here.” I was like, “You’re exactly right.” The shade.
I have yet to figure out how to make that consistent for me because I don’t have a Charlie. I have a Sebastian. Depending on the day, which is most days unless it is summertime perfect weather. He will go out, do his business and then he’s going back in. There’s a whole routine that goes along with him. I can’t just leave and go for my walk. By that time, my husband’s already gone to work. On the days where I’m working from home, I am the caregiver for Sebastian. I’m trying to figure that whole walking piece out.
Sebastian keeps you well though.
The Power of Community and Sisterhood
He does mentally and emotionally. You’re very good about doing that. Sylvia, tell me what role does community, friendship, or sisterhood play in your wellness? Is it underrated?
Absolutely not. I am so grateful to have a community of people. Everyone keeps me well. Certainly, you’re among those wonderful people. We have the girls that we do the girls’ trip with. I have some cousins that check in on me. I have Uncle William’s extended family and Kokomo. I get texts from them. I have some people in Atlanta.
My circle is getting bigger as I age. A lot of that has to do with my intentionality around relationships with people. For me, it doesn’t take a whole lot. Once you’re my people, you’re going to get a card from me. I may not remember everything, I may not call you, but you’re going to get a note. You may get a random text on, “How you doing?” You may get some random thing in the mail. It could be a box of cards that I saw that I thought you liked.
I feel like random is not really the best word. I think it’s more regular. I think that’s the thing. You’re very good at that.
I’m so grateful to have people. I’m a better human being because I have people in my life that love me and that show up for me. I try to do the same for them. What about you, community and friendship?
I feel like we talk about this quite a bit. I think we’re both very grateful and blessed to have the kind of friendships that we have. Certainly, we have some of the same in terms of our friend groups. I’ve got my line sisters from college that I pledged with.
What sorority is that? We might as well just go ahead and say it.
It’s Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated. Those are people that knew me even before you knew me. I’ve got my girls from med school, my childhood best friend, Bridget Sims Lewis. I always want to do it the other way around, she’ll get me. She’s a friend of the show. I’ve got my friend daughters who are amazing. They’re still always my girls. I always still have that advice to give. They are friends and they check in. They know when I need that lift. That’s cool for me. It’s something that you don’t necessarily expect. Certainly, I know that it’s a blessing.
Not everyone has it either. I don’t want to take that for granted.
I don’t, for sure.
Especially, we are only children as well. We’re quite fortunate to be able to cultivate relationships with other people who then become like family. I want to continue to dispel the myth that women can’t be friends. There are some tropes out there that talk about, “I don’t have a lot of women friends for X, Y, or Z reasons.” I’m sorry for you, if that has been your experience. I’m also optimistic and hopeful. To be a friend, to be a sister, and to have them, you have to be them, too.
To be a friend, to be a sister, and to have them, you have to be them, too. Share on XEven when you don’t have that time. I’ve got my girls from my second practice in Dallas. They will check in. It can be once a month or every other month. They know when the timing is to check in on you. You have to give it back. That’s the part that I’m working on. It’s being intentional about giving that same love back. I’m certainly there when somebody needs me.
You do it all the time. You pick up on it if I answer the phone in a particular way. You’re like, “Girl, are you alright?”
It’s more your one or two responses. You’re not wordy anyway, which is something I’m trying to learn. Your text responses, I can pick up on that. Tell me if there is a time that you can think of that you completely fell off mentally, physically, or spiritually. What prompted it?
Residency was rough. It’s three years of being on call every fourth night. You’re on call on Monday. You go in at 8:00 AM. You leave the hospital on Tuesday at some time that we don’t know. They don’t do that anymore. It could be 5:00 PM or 6:00 PM. You still have to go back to work on Wednesday. Residency was tough. I was in Seattle and I felt isolated, I will say.
Certainly, it’s because I felt so far away from everyone that I’d gone to medical school with. Although, it is on the West Coast. I’m still an LA girl. We love our readers from the Pacific Northwest. However, it’s different. You’re working all the time. I was constantly sleep-deprived. It was just a lot. Have you had a period where you completely fell off?
In terms of taking care of myself, maybe not just one time, when family members are not well. You drop everything and do what you have to do. I don’t know times that I can think of in my life where I’ve been in that situation where I’ve had the same emotional and spiritual foundation that I have now. For me, all I need to do is take care of the other person.
In one of those circumstances, I had talked to a counselor. It was in that moment that I was made aware. That notion of, “You’ve got to put your oxygen mask on first before you can help anybody else.” I can still remember being in a quiet room with lights down and going through some kind of breathing exercises. Being grateful for somebody telling me, “You got to take care of yourself to take care of anyone else.”
You got to take care of yourself to take care of anyone else. Share on XYou’re grateful for that counselor because it sounds like he, she, or they helped pull you back.
For sure. I can put residency up there, too. That’s a whole four years of being unwell. We both are trained in the same era. We worked, potentially with no sleep for 36 hours.
Distinguishing Seasons of Struggle from a Need for Change
Until the work was done. That’s how long you worked. How do you distinguish between a season of struggle versus a sign that you need to change something for real? Sometimes, things are a season. We’re like, “I’m in the season.” We know it’s going to come to an end. Seasons always do. Sometimes it’s like, “I need to be proactive about changing something.” Can you distinguish the two?
No. I think it’s hard. All that I can say is trying to put the work in on myself. Many times, we throw away jobs, friends, relationships based on what somebody else has done or what they’ve not done.
“I was wrong, Angela. They were mean to me. That job was trash.”
You haven’t done the work yourself. I can’t say that I can give you and ask how to distinguish between the two. What I am doing is trying to do my work. I try to work on myself getting to that point where I am physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually well before making decisions about life changes.
I don’t think I knew I had work to do until probably my third or fourth job. I had an epiphany of when they always talk about, “Wherever you go, there you are.” I am the common denominator in this work situation that is not working well for me. How is it that you end up here again? You can slot in a relationship.
You were with this person, and it didn’t work out. He wasn’t the only person in the relationship. What responsibility then do I have to make certain that going forward, I am more thoughtful? It’s a journey. Perhaps there was a season that I was fully in the wilderness, blissfully unaware of my contribution to where I was in life.
I can certainly relate there. Now that you say that, I can think of when I was trying to decide how I was going to proceed with continuing to do OB-GYN. There had been many years where I knew that being on call and losing sleep was no longer serving me. I didn’t feel well physically. I certainly didn’t feel well emotionally.
We can say it was post-pandemic where I got the courage to make a change. Not that I didn’t have knowledge that change needed to happen beforehand. I think, as for many people, it gave you a lot of time for introspection. For me, it was the courage to make a change. I’m forever grateful for doing that for myself. Saying to myself that I cannot continue to do life this way and be healthy.
You are courageous. Angela, what is your sign, you tell that “I’m not okay?” The thing that people closest to you notice before you do.
Probably my face. Apparently, people can tell by the way that I look on the outside. For the most part, I’m pretty much a smiley person. I live life with a smile on my face and it’s genuine.
You don’t have a resting stern face? I do.
Apparently not so when I do get that, it’s when people know and they’re like, “What is wrong with you? Are you okay?” That’s it. How about you?
It’s certainly my tone when I answer the phone, which I never know I’m telling on myself. Also, I become much more direct, more prickly, maybe less thoughtful in my responses. It is straight no chaser. That’s not always fun to be with.
Sometimes it tells people, “Pay attention.”
Rapid Fire: The Wellness “Toss-Up”
Can we do some rapid fire?
Let’s do it. I’m ready.
As we are doing this, it is Daylight Saving Time. We are going to lose an hour of sleep. Would you rather sleep or have an extra hour to yourself?
Sleep.
Me too.
The last time you said no to protect your peace.
I’m very proud of this. I am going to do a talk. Again, my life is very full and I’m grateful. I needed the day before to prepare because I’m flying. I was a little bit reticent to ask for coverage for that day, although it is all work-related. I’m taking off my Supergirl, Superwoman, Wonder Woman cape and said, “I need to be off that day.” The universe provided and someone is covering that shift. It was a no to work. What about you, the last time you said no to protect your peace?
Probably the last time I said no to protect my peace was when you asked me about an alumni event. I was like, “Let me think about that.” Before I had time to think about all of the things that I had to do, you said, “Don’t you have this, this, and this?” I was quickly brought back to reality and said, “I can’t.” I’m learning that to do things effectively and to the best quality that I can do them, I have to say no. Even though some of the other things might still be aligned with what I want to do and my mission. It just may not be the right time. I can say, “Not at this time.”
To do things effectively and to the best quality that I can do them, I have to say no. Share on XTherapy, journaling, both or neither?
Both. How about you?
Both, but it’s not classical journaling. I like a list around my future, or what I envision.
Is it a one-word list?
A series of words.
You are good at communicating with a few words, I will say. I have yet to learn that quality. The wellness trend you tried and immediately quit?
This goes way back. I tried hapkido, the martial arts thing. It was not for me. I didn’t like falling on the ground. Is there a wellness trend that you tried and immediately quit?
I completed it. It was a 5:00 AM boot camp. Need I say more? This was back in Texas with my girl, Dr. Olive. We both got up every morning for that. It must have been an eight-week boot camp. It was at the park. It was nice but a little bit chilly springtime. It felt so good. It ended and so did my morning boot camp. As you say, I’m not a morning person unless my job requires it.
Something your body is asking for now that you keep ignoring?
Water. Not in general, I do pretty good. I have just been doing so many things. That’s probably not a generalized thing, just what’s happening for me right here and right now. How about you?
Mine is probably rest.
I’m going to add because I think so many people do this. We get patients to do this, ignoring aches. I’ve got a shoulder that keeps asking for more than a leave, rest, and stretching. It’s not yelling yet but it’s being close. It’s whispering in my ear. That is something I am ignoring, which is not a good habit to be in.
We don’t want to get to the yell because then you’re like me. You can’t turn the doorknob because the C-spine is inflamed. Move your body or rest your body. What does this week need? Movement or rest?
Rest because I have been moving a lot. My daughter is doing some moving and I happen to be in town. I will need rest. You?
More movement.
What’s your snack when you’re spiraling?
I’ll give you two. You already know, McDonald’s French fries and ice cream.
Since it’s so prevalent at my house, not because I buy it, but someone else buys it. It’s one of those ice creams with the chocolate covering and the nuts on it
Is it like a Häagen-Dazs bar?
Yes, that. They’re not kept in the kitchen intentionally. If there’s a spiral in, usually, if you’re staying up too late. I haven’t been able to eliminate the snack from being present in my house, and my legs still work to walk to it.
They magically just appear. Probably what happens is that one may be handed to you.Sharing is caring.
One person who keeps you grounded?
I’ll just say you.
I can say the same. Probably because we’re in each other’s worlds more now than ever. We’re constantly working on the show because we’re in the same careers. That’s helpful. We’re able to remind each other of our mission in doing this. We get caught up in all of the minutiae of the mission. When you’re in it with somebody, your mission, you’re able to remind each other of that.
Finish this line. I know I’m well when?
I’m at the beach with my family. How about you?
In that vein, I’ll just say when I am in the Delta Sky Lounge, headed for vacation for a holiday.
Those are the best times. That was awesome. We would love for you guys to take something from this mini version of our, what does wellness mean to you? Hope that you were able to glean something or maybe a reminder that you can take. If you have anything in the future that you would love for us to share, give it to us. You can reach us at BossLeapPodcast.com. We’re on all streaming platforms. You can also reach us at YouTube and become a subscriber. We would love that. Communicate with us that way. Sylvia, until we meet again. May you be well.
May you be well.
Important Links
- Dr. Angela Walker
- Dr. Sylvia Morris
- Calm
- Headspace
- Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated
- Boss Leap Podcast on YouTube
- The Game Plan: A Woman’s Guide to Becoming a Doctor and Living a Life in Medicine
- The Art Of Money Consciousness With Susan Nicholas, MD, MBA – Previous Episode