Women continue to transform healthcare leadership by showing that empathy, courage, and vision can coexist in powerful ways. In this compelling conversation, Dr. Bisi Alli and Dr. Jasmine Smith-Onyebuolise open up about what it means to lead through compassion, equity, and purpose. They share how mentorship, authenticity, and community have shaped their careers—and how they’re helping others find meaning in the demanding world of medicine. Their stories highlight that leadership in healthcare isn’t just about outcomes; it’s about humanity.
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Leading With Heart And Healing: Women In Healthcare Leadership With Dr. Bisi Alli & Dr. Jasmine Smith-Onyebuolise
We are joined by two incredible physicians whose friendship began during their residency together in Arizona and has grown into a shared mission to transform health through lifestyle medicine. Dr. Alli is an internist and a Lean Six Sigma black belt. She’ll tell us more about that. She’s the author of the children’s book, Tayo and the Super Produce Pals at the Grocery Store!, which inspires kids and families to embrace healthy eating. Dr. Smith is a pediatrician, a national lecturer on financial wellness for medical students, and a recipient of the American Women’s Medical Association Mentorship Award for her dedication to guiding the next generation of doctors.
Both women are board-certified in lifestyle medicine, passionate educators, and change makers in their fields. Together, they bring wisdom, humor, and a heart to this conversation. Sylvia, we had so many conversations about health and nutrition in particular. I want to get your feel on food as medicine, what that means to you, and how you live your life in terms of nutrition and how you eat.
You know that I like nothing better than breaking bread. I’m the person who has one meal, and I start to think about the next meal. Food is one of my favorite topics. I was at our local farmer’s market, the Dekalb Farmer’s Market, buying my vegetables. It helps me see and get excited with my eyes. I bought something new. I bought baby bok choy. I’m going to roast it.
What I want to mention is that, during my time in academic medicine, I would go to Whole Foods Market here in Atlanta in my white coat, stand near the produce aisle, and talk to people about how food is medicine. I’m board-certified in holistic medicine. We know that letting food be your medicine is important. We are what we eat. We should eat nine fruits and vegetables every day and eat the rainbow, which are some of the things that Dr. Alli and Dr. Smith talked about. What is your favorite superfood?
Eating The Rainbow: The Joy Of Healthy Food
We touched on this in a previous episode. I find it to be a boring answer, but it’s a salad and a Mediterranean diet.
You can do a whole lot with salad.
Salads of any kind. I’ve always been that salad person. I’ll put everything and anything into a salad. That’s some of the things that excite me about making a different salad and putting in ingredients. I’ve always been that person, and some of that comes from my mother. We talked on the show about teas. I remember her having goldenseal and all these herbal things.
She had these herbal teas, echinacea, and all the things. She still has all of that and more. With learning how to eat healthy, I didn’t realize how much of a blessing it was. Eating the rainbow, we did that. There was no different food for me because I was a kid. Granted, there were things that were not on the lifestyle medicine menu that we had in our house.
Everything in moderation.
Some of it didn’t need to happen. Those are some of my favorite things. I am that person, though, who eats for necessity. I don’t sit and necessarily dream about what I’m going to eat, but if I go to the Dekalb Market or I am inspired by what I see, sometimes, the recipe comes from those things that I see. It’s important to make sure what you see in the grocery store is the healthiest thing first, before shopping the perimeter of the grocery store.
When we say perimeter, though, it is more of the green or all of the rainbow, which are the fruits and vegetables first. It’s so important to talk about this in our communities so that we can eat healthy, and it still tastes good. Sometimes, people like me need the recipes or need the inspiration and how to do it. I see this as an ongoing conversation.
Let’s be very clear. We have a certain amount of privilege in that we can choose the different supermarkets that we go to, whether it’s Whole Foods, Trader Joe’s, Sprouts, or wherever it happens to be. We have choices that not all communities have. However, when we talk about frozen foods and even unsalted canned foods, there are still some ways in which you can eat healthy and use food as your medicine that is pocket-friendly. We’ll get into some of those conversations when we talk with Dr. Alli and Dr. Smith.
I am so excited. Without further ado, we’ll give you our guest. We hope that you continue to tune in and enjoy.
We are in for a treat because we have not 1, but 2 physicians. Dr. Alli and Dr. Smith, welcome to the show.
Finding Your Calling: The Inspiration Behind A Medical Career
We are so excited. We cannot wait to get into the conversation. We have so many questions for both of you. You are such accomplished physicians, women, and freedom fighters for what I call our preventive medicine push, particularly with lifestyle medicine. I’d like to start with some of the basics. We’ll start with you, Dr. Alli, and then Dr. Smith. Tell me. Where do you call home, and what inspired you to pursue medicine in the first place?
Dr. Walker and Dr. Morris, thank you so much for inviting us to this awesome show. You are doing such wonderful things, bringing such brilliance to the community. Thank you again for hosting us. I’m originally from Michigan. I prefer above 80 degrees, so I moved to Phoenix, Arizona, for training for my residency after medical school in Michigan, and decided to stay. I continued as a chief resident. I stayed on as faculty, associate program director, and founding medical director of the VA residency clinic. I was then recruited to Mayo Clinic. I continued that inspiration and started my own practice in consulting and quality improvement. I’ve valued wellness and how it impacts health.
When you say Mayo, you mean Arizona, not Mayo Minnesota?
Yes. I miss a lot of the traditional values and beauty that you see in Michigan. It’s just the weather that gets me.
I get that. How about you, Dr. Smith?
Thank you. I grew up in a city called Chino Hills, California. I’m a Southern California girl through and through. Our claim to fame is a famous basketball family. I grew up playing a lot of sports. The other part of your question was what initially drew me to medicine. One of the formative experiences of my life was as an elementary school child. One of our scheduled field trips was going to the Museum of Tolerance in Los Angeles.
At that museum, there’s a focus on educating folks who enter those doors about the Holocaust. Part of the experience in that museum is that you get information about a person who was alive during that time, and at the end of your tour, you find out if that person ended up living beyond that time period or if they passed away during that time. I had the card of a child. At the end of the experience, I found out that the child had passed away during that time.
They were murdered, right?
Indeed. From that timeframe, it struck me and stuck with me. It made me want to make sure my life meant something. I felt like I wanted to pursue a field that would be impactful or that would positively impact the lives of others. It came from that formative experience. That’s what initially pushed me into medicine, wanting to make sure my life counted for something.
In that moment, did you want to go into pediatrics?
I wasn’t sure. I entered medical school with that on my mind, knowing that a child had lost their life. What I felt was too early in wanting to impact the youth. Eventually, I discovered internal medicine pediatrics. I didn’t know that was an option. Understanding that there are children who are dealing with health conditions that were typically thought to be more adult conditions.
They have diabetes.
They have diabetes, fatty liver disease in their late teens or early twenties, and things of that nature. Being equipped to help manage those conditions and speak to the importance of prevention, knowing that people are developing those pathologies at earlier ages.
The Power Of Connection: Friendship In Residency And Beyond
That’s a perfect tease. We are going to get into food as medicine, but before we get there, let’s talk about how you both trained together. Can you talk about your time as residents, what connected you, and how you’ve kept your friendship going over the years?
I’m happy to start first. You had asked Dr. Walker about what inspired my interest in medicine. My very first role model is my dad, who is an internal medicine physician. My mom has a background as a nurse and social worker. She has a Master’s in Social Work. They were, first and foremost, my role models. Like Jasmine, borrowing from the pain around us and wanting to be champions of solutions is what led me into the path of becoming a physician.
It’s very important that you have people who see that we can do something with our impact, our background, and our training. It was only natural that on my tours of various medical schools around the country that I should meet somebody like Jasmine or Dr. Smith who shares so many of the same passions. I got to talking. She took me out to dinner that evening. That’s how I knew that this was the program for me. I was like, “Any place where she would sign up, I’ve got to be at.” We’ve been friends ever since, in a mentorship capacity, and learning how to forge our pathways together. She’s always been an amazing friend, inspiration, and someone that I can bounce ideas off of.
It's very important that you have people who see that we can do something with our impact, our background, and our training. Share on XWhat I’ve learned from our friendship is the importance of peer mentoring. I believe we’ve been each other’s peer mentors along the way, whether that be from trudging through residency because it’s a challenging time, talking about our post-training careers, and understanding tips and tricks around promotion, advocating for yourself, curricula development, and things of that nature. Being able to bounce ideas off of each other and enlighten each other to resources that will help us continue to have success in our professional journeys has been very rewarding. I’ve been incredibly appreciative of Dr. Alli and her ongoing advocacy for others. She wants to see everyone around her win.
Lean Six Sigma: Optimizing Healthcare For Better Outcomes
I can certainly relate to that, working with Dr. Alli on some issues around maternal morbidity, mortality, and health equity. We are all part of what Sylvia would say is the mutual admiration society. Particularly when you’re in a field where people outside the field don’t necessarily understand the demands and the highs and the lows of it, when you can find that person, it’s a godsend for me. I find that in my friends from medical school, and then those people that I’ve picked up along the way. I’m grateful. Thank you for sharing that.
Here’s a question, going in a different direction, in terms of leadership. Dr. Alli, I would love for you to tell us a little bit about Lean Six Sigma. You are a black belt. I know I’ve always heard of it and thought of it more in the business realm. I’d love for you to tell us a little bit about it and how that shaped your leadership style in medicine.
In terms of leadership and modeling behaviors that are towards promotion. I appreciate all of you. Lean Six Sigma comes out of the automotive industry. It was adapted to medicine with the intention of highlighting areas of inequity and areas of improvement where we can use standard methodologies, which is a dedicated science, to be able to identify the underlying cause of a problem and then come up with high-level solutions. It’s very methodological. It’s intentional. It also includes the use of stakeholders. Those are people who are directly touching the process or maybe have a vested interest in the outcome. It is bringing all those people together through a dedicated evaluation of what the process looks like.
It’s like root cause analysis.
That’s one aspect, for sure. What’s critical about it is that when you use this approach, you’re able to come up with high-level interventions that promote better morale for the institution. My chief resident year was as a dedicated chief resident in quality and safety. During that year, I developed a curriculum that spanned two hospital systems dedicated to teaching our residents, medical students, faculty, and staff at large to solve ongoing process issues that would either directly impact patient or impact workflow. That work, thankfully, made significant improvements in outcomes throughout the system and was also awarded through the Institute of Healthcare Improvement. It won number one.
That’s a big win.
It was fantastic. That approach is very similar to what Dr. Smith does in her day-to-day and also with her financial wellness curriculum. Many of us do this intuitively, frankly, which is the neat part. I’m grateful to be able to consult with the American College of Physicians and work with systems across the country.
Mentorship Matters: Unlocking Success In Medicine
Let’s shift gears a little bit. Dr. Smith, you brought up peer mentorship, the importance of that, and the relationship that you have with Dr. Alli. You received an award from the American Women’s Medical Association for mentorship. Could you talk a little bit more about the importance of mentorship and what it means to your career?
Yeah, certainly. Thank you for bringing that up. A couple of years ago, I was part of a podcast that talked about the hidden curricula of medicine. A lot of that piece of work talked about how not everyone is privy to information that can directly lead to your promotion and success in your field.
Dr. Smith, before you get too far, who is the curriculum hidden from?
That’s a great point. It’s hidden from those who may not have had access, whether it be from family members, peers, or their social circle, to some of the things, whether it be in awards available, whether it be in resources available, or whether it be focused on specific ways to present your work, specific advocates that may be available, or specific funding that may be available. Generally, these resources and information are siloed in specific circles. In those circles, it oftentimes is shared with folks who didn’t look like them or folks who limit that information to their own circle. If you’re not part of that circle, then you’re not privy to that information.
For instance, Dr. Alli and I started a diversity mentorship program when we were both living in Arizona, focused on unveiling the hidden curricula to students in the area. I recall being a medical student and being told that a lot of the content that was being presented to me seemed like it was very new to me. It was a striking comment because I thought it should be new to everyone. I remember being asked if I had other family members in medicine or what my previous experience in medicine had been, and I said, “I don’t.”
You’re in medical school to learn how to become a physician, so why should that matter? Please continue.
Indeed, so it struck me. I thought of myself as a person who was working hard in learning the material, and yet the impression I was making was that things were new to me. It got me thinking, “What am I missing? What is different in the way that I present information? What is different in my approach to things?” I was paying attention to those around me, searching for other resources that were available. I almost made it a mission to try to make those things available to those who are coming after me to make their road a little bit easier.
Mentorship has been part of my entire professional career. Everywhere that I’ve gone, I’ve helped to start programs. I live in Los Angeles. I started a program in Los Angeles, developing mentorship families and focusing on medical students, medical trainees, and faculty members to unveil that curriculum. I make sure that those coming behind me don’t have the same experience that I had, and that they aren’t looked at as different or othered because they may not have had exposure to certain things that other people may have had exposure to.
Can you share the name of that program?
Yeah. The program that I’m affiliated with is called the Opportunity, Integrity, and Impact mentorship program, based in Los Angeles. That’s a program that focuses on students interested in pediatrics in the immediate Los Angeles area. We generally work with students at the Medical School of USC, but also expand the opportunity to students and trainees throughout Southern California.
I have to comment on this aspect because financial wellness, and I can speak for Sylvia as well, was new to us. In the book that we wrote, The Game Plan, that was one of the key features in terms of getting financial planning while you are in medical school. These were things that we didn’t know. Honestly, I was working my first practice, not contributing to a 401(k) because of a lack of information.
To put that out for men and women who are in medical school is so important. I strongly believe it should be a strong part of our curricula for everyone, regardless of what you know or don’t know. If it’s not in the curriculum, you’ve got a program out there. We need to be doing our part in sharing this important information with those coming behind us. Thank you both for your leadership and for what you’re doing.
Embracing Lifestyle Medicine: A Holistic Approach To Patient Care
In terms of leadership, that leads me to the next thought that I have. Both of you are farther along than I am in terms of your board certification and lifestyle medicine. I’m new to the game. I’m not new to the thought process or the passion behind it, but new to the actual discipline of lifestyle medicine. I’d like to know what drew you to it and how it has changed the way you care for your patients. Dr. Alli, if you want to go first?
I’m glad you highlighted that distinction, Dr. Walker, because for some of us, we have been practicing this way, or we’re aware of it. What was great about the certification through the American College of Lifestyle Medicine is that they centralized a lot of the resources. There’s a powerful community of people who reverberate how critical this approach to clinical practice is.
We’re centering everything from nurturing activities, eating plant-powered foods, exercise, sleep, stress management, as well as timed mindful breaks. I learned about the value of food as medicine as a child. Hearing the message in my home was, “Make sure you’re eating something green on your plate.” Also, my dad banned sugar cereals when we were six. I still remember how that felt.
That’s a power move right there.
I have so much gratitude in hindsight because a lot of those efforts laid the foundation for how I grew up. I had this fantastic professor in medical school, Dr. Jillian Bice. She did a funny skit about how a lot of our food can be made so simply with a few ingredients, the way some places do with changing the shape of the food, but with the same key ingredients. She was talking about Taco Bell, for example. Her point was that you can do that in your own homes as well, picking three key healthy ingredients and then integrating those into different ways. I ran with that message into my residency.
I started a dedicated shared medical appointment with my dietician for the clinic. She was fantastic. We would bring in fresh produce for our patients to try during the appointment. It was fantastic, the level of engagement. At the VA, we would do this with the veterans. I had a wonderful setup where I had a dietician and a social worker in the room. The truth is, the veterans would teach one another.
We would highlight the value of low-sodium foods on blood pressure and heart failure in terms of reducing exacerbations. We would highlight how easy it is to create meals at home. That informs what I do now. The same message at Mayo is the same message I would carry now, where we have shared medical appointments for our patients. We also teach through innovative ways, including storytelling.
The whole point is how we get this message that needs to be accessible and front and center for everybody, no matter what your age is, that what we eat adds to how long we live. We want to make that from everywhere, from what’s in your pantry to what our policy support is or what our government support is.
What we eat adds to how long we live. Share on XSimilar to Dr. Alli, this has been something that’s been top of mind since I was a child. My mother would often have nutritional healing books throughout our household. I always knew when a new version came out because it was right at our doorstep. She was passionate about using the things that we eat to impact our health. Even when we were cutely ill, she was like, “These teas are helpful. You need to drink a tea with echinacea. You need to have this. You need to have that. Where is your vitamin C?”
She encouraged us to be mindful of a larger framework for what included health. Health went beyond medications. Even though those things could be helpful in the acute setting, there were other things that were helpful in the acute and long-term setting that could support your health. That was something that was part of my childhood.
I spend most of my direct patient care in the inpatient setting. It’s been difficult to see obesity, chronic illness, diabetes, and liver disease happening in children who are school-aged. We are trying to understand what we could do to impact behavior change, understanding that those children are often part of family units. They may not be the major decision-makers related to what is in their home.
We are wondering how we could impact families. What could we do to impact families? What tools exist already to help impact families? Lifestyle medicine was a way to obtain more resources, more training, and a different framework that I could use when a family member or a patient would ask me, “Doctor, you say I need to change my lifestyle, but how do I do that? What does that mean? What are the steps?” We can say that all day, but what does it mean in the home?
They’re like, “I don’t know how to cook, doctor. What should I do? It’s expensive to get organic produce. What do I do?” Having the tools and being equipped to say, “Here are some options. Here are some things that you can do,” is what drove me to lifestyle medicine. I’ve been thankful for how I’ve been able to incorporate that in my practice.
Superfood Secrets: Sprouted Tofu And Leafy Greens
Thank you so much for sharing that. Letting food be our medicine is important. The policy side of it, we could talk ad nauseam about that, but let’s pull it back to the food part. Can you talk about your favorite superfood? Is there one food that you’re like, “Everybody should think about adding this to their diet.” We’ll start with you, Dr. Alli.
My favorite is sprouted tofu.
There’s fermented tofu, firm tofu, and soft tofu. Please explain.
There are so many different varieties of tofu. The common ones you’ll see in the store are soft, silken, and firm. There’s a subcategory of sprouted tofu, which is firmer. The reason I enjoy it is its texture. It doesn’t have a lot of moisture when you take it out of the package. You don’t have to spend 30-plus minutes pressing it. It has such a wonderful texture. We take it right out of the package and put it into the pan.
First of all, tofu comes from soybeans, so it’s high in fiber and protein, especially. It’s a full protein, so you don’t have to eat a lot of other things to help get the necessary protein needed to build healthy muscles. The other value added is that sprouting means that you’re getting a higher density of nutrients. It is better digested in your GI system or your gut system. It is very filling. You combine that with something like brown rice and other vegetables if you’re trying to eat the rainbow. It’s fantastic.
Is there sprouted tofu everywhere, or do we need to go to a particular type of specialty store?
I found it in a lot of places. There are some grocery stores, depending on the neighborhood. This is where that policy thing that you were talking about becomes a real challenge because it must be available everywhere. There are grocery stores that are more consistent with that messaging, so you will find it. For those who want to save gas and time, call in advance. There are grocery stores that have it.
Is it expensive?
That’s a very good question. It is not. Especially when we’re talking about being cost-sensitive, which I’m so grateful that you brought up, this is cheaper than meat. It also has a higher nutritional benefit. It’s better digested. You don’t have to worry the same way because you get a lot of time for that product to sit in the refrigerator if you need to, compared to if you’re eating meat. The shelf life is better. The reason I bring it up is that my little one brought it to school. He was telling me that his friend was saying, “Tell your mom to bring some more of that tofu.” They eat it with broccoli, too. When you have sprouted tofu and hemp seeds, you’re good to go.
How about you, Dr. Smith?
Mine are any leafy greens and berries, specifically because you can grow them. You can grow blueberries. You can grow collards. As a matter of fact, I was out shopping, and I ran into a woman. She was buying soil, and I was like, “Do you grow your own food?” She said, “Yes. This is the best soil.” She also lives in the city and shared the expansive garden that she had crafted in her yard.
It doesn’t take a lot of land. All you need is a corner outside, or even a corner of your own home. You can grow these things. A lot of systems that are in place where you need a little bit of space, and you can grow your own food. My favorite superfoods are the ones that you can grow. You can grow collards, kale, spinach, berries, and tomatoes. It doesn’t take that much effort. Specifically, where I live, with the climate, it’s hard to mess that up. There are certain climates where you have to be a little bit more mindful, but we all have it within our purview to grow something.
The best superfoods are the ones that you can grow. Share on XIs your thumb green?
It is not. That’s why I’m an advocate for it, because I am not the best at this. I’m like, “Let me see if I drop some seeds if something will happen.” It often does. Let’s say you take some seeds from a fruit that you’ve consumed at home. You can drop those seeds, and you can watch them sprout. It can turn into something amazing.
Don’t you have to dry them out and then sprout them in the little plants, and then transfer them?
That’s fair. There are levels to this, but you can also go to your local grocery stores often, or even your local Costco. They already have some of the items that are beyond those stages that you can take home and transfer. It is accessible. If you want to start from the beginning and sprout your seed, you can certainly do that, but you don’t have to. There are cost-efficient ways that will allow everyone to have this access and to be able to grow their own produce.
I wanted to add to what Dr. Smith said. That’s so important to closing that visibility gap. What we show children, which is often that food only comes from one place, which is a store, when we show them that you can grow it at home, they’re more likely to eat it. It’s very empowering.
When we show kids that you can grow food at home, they're more likely to eat it. Share on XTayo And The Super Produce Pals: Empowering Children Through Nutrition
That was a perfect segue, Dr. Alli, because I want you to tell us all about Tayo and the Super Produce Pals at the Grocery Store! Truth be told, when I got this book, I was so passionate about it. I am searching for all the little kids who would be empowered by this. It’s beautifully written and very thoughtful. I’ve got two grown kids, but it is something that I would have shared with them. You’re always searching for something that teaches them something positive, whether it’s body image or certainly what you’re putting into your body.
Tayo is so excited about eating healthy. I’ll let you talk about your own book, but it’s very apparent that he has been taught that fruits and vegetables are good things for his body. It’s everything in the grocery store. Also, the intent that was put into the book is not only telling the story, but you also have resources, activities, and recipes for the kids to do.
Tell us about your book.
I appreciate you so much.
I’m so sorry, but I’m very passionate about it.
It’s a testament when someone like you sees the value of the book, and you can explain it. I appreciate that so much. I want to give a nod to Dr. Smith, who is an endorser of the book, which is awesome. We also have endorsements from the Executive Vice President and Chief Health Officer of Blue Zones, as well as the President of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine. Dieticians and parents support it. It’s wonderful.
As it should be.
Tell us about the inspiration for the book, who the target is, and all of those things.
I’ve always wanted to write a book. Specifically, given how food is medicine was always part of my upbringing, it has always mattered to me that all children, all adults, everybody on this Earth has the ability to eat food that is nutritional, food that is nourishing, and food that supports health.
Political and revolutionary. I like that.
Thank you. In writing this book, I was very intentional to capture what I see in my own home with my little one and how he brings so much joy in grocery shopping. It’s a delight to watch him, so much so that people will stop us and ask what he’s putting in his cart. He’s at that level of energy when he’s shopping. The uniqueness of the book is that you’re getting this message through the eyes of a child. I want both adults and children to be inspired that this can be child-led.
The book highlights the value of plant-powered eating for health over a lifespan. It also highlights a variety of people across neighborhoods and communities who are shopping in this grocery store. You also see people who are living with a variety of different abilities. We have depicted an employee who has a below-the-knee limb difference. You have a child who’s in a wheelchair. The intentionality is that everybody benefits from eating this way.
The other message is that you see the way the child interacts with the employees in the store, in addition to mom. Everybody is on the same page that eating this wells towards health, growth, and well-being. That was our experience at certain grocery stores, where you would see the way that they interact with children. They’re encouraging.
They’re sharing carrots and letting them pick bags from their hand. They’re asking them questions about what they’re eating and asking if they know what it does to the body. That’s the level of engagement that we want everywhere, not just in the grocery store or certain homes. We want this in schools and community organizations. If they’re not hearing it from us, what they are hearing are these other very passive messages.
The commercials.
The data shows, as Dr. Smith can attest, that the more they hear that kind of messaging, the more the prevalence of obesity. In the last couple of years, we’ve had the highest level of obesity in our children. In the last couple of years, this has been the highest rate of obesity. We want to get the message out that we have some power in our hands. We do not need to wait for other people to make this kind of food available to us. We can grow it. We can buy it. It doesn’t always have to be expensive. It doesn’t have to always be organic. Frozen food matters. Canned food matters. Dried food matters.
We have some power in our hands. We do not need to wait for other people to make healthy food available to us. We can grow it. We can buy it. Share on XI love that part.
A lot of those tips are in the book. They’re the green pages of the book that have tips on how to eat that way. There are some recipes in here. I was trying to be intentional about making this a book across all communities.
There are so many takeaways from it. One of the messages in there is when one of the grocery store attendants asked Tayo, who was asking for carrots, “What do you dip your carrots in?” He says, “A bowl.” He’s like, “Hummus.” In other words, I don’t need to dip it in anything. The carrot is good all by itself. It was positive messaging.
I could relate to it as a parent reading this to my child. I can’t think of a better children’s book. I have several in my repertoire, but in terms of addressing health and well-being. Kudos to you both for what you put into the book. I know, Dr. Smith, that you’re completely endorsing it. My endorsement is not going to mean as much, but I completely endorse it, particularly for our readers who are looking for not only positive messaging but something that can potentially affect a child’s health. It’s affecting their health long-term, which also affects the health of the family long-term.
Why don’t we go ahead and say it? Where can we buy the book?
Thank you for asking. The book is available in a couple of places. It’s on my website, which is www.WellNESTMedicine.com/books. It’s also available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble. It’s pretty much where books are sold, but those are the common places where people are buying the book.
Dr. Alli, this would be great for a holiday gift, a birthday gift, or this Tuesday’s gift.
It’s an any-day gift.
It could be part of your reading circles. I know a lot of communities organize reading events for the children.
That’s a great idea.
It’s colorful and engaging. That’s what kids are attracted to.
The illustrations are fantastic.
Thank you so much. I also wanted to share that we are reaching out to pediatric clinics across the country to be able to evaluate how this book impacts health behaviors in homes. We’re also seeing clinicians who are using the book as a talking piece in their clinics to generate more spontaneous discussions around what we’re eating, resources, and accessibility of food. We do know competing factors like food access are a critical concern, so we want to make that a priority.
The book is also a nice window to a grant that I received from the American College of Physicians. That grant is to bring to the table more opportunities for people to eat this way through teaching our clinicians across Arizona, first and foremost, and then across the country about how to lead with food is medicine in their practices.
The other aspect is we’re reaching out to community-based organizations to be able to garden and bring more of these seeds to the table to grow our health over the long-term. The last aspect emphasizes the value of coaching in these dynamics. It’s not a simple process for some, although small steps do matter. A book, a story, and an opportunity to have a discussion with people who love you are ways to build this messaging about food is medicine closer to home. I am excited about that as well.
That’s wonderful.
Community Catalysts: Advocating For Healthier Food Options
I have a thought in terms of what you’re doing, which I completely champion in Arizona and, hopefully, nationwide. When you were talking about the sprouted tofu, Sylvia and I were both like, “Where do you get that from?” What I have noticed sometimes in your grocery stores is that when they don’t have something, ask for it. Oftentimes, if enough people ask, or if you are that squeaky wheel, they may bring it in and see how it sells. Oftentimes, you can be that inspiration for them to bring something healthy into the store.
You are brilliant. That goes for so many different things. That’s the way we want to be catalysts. Start even in your communities and ask for food that matters, that settles the heart, and that helps the body grow. Also, you can ask your library to order the book. It doesn’t have to be a cost-of-living factor to have access to these resources. People have been doing that around the country, and it’s impressive. The book is available through a wholesale distributor that also distributes to libraries, too. I wanted to share about the sprouted tofu. A neighbor had been talking to my son, and now she eats sprouted tofu weekly.
Ask for food that matters, that settles the heart, and that helps the body grow. Share on XHe was the catalyst there. That’s beautiful.
That’s how we can spread the messaging. I’m so grateful that you brought that up. We can make those differences.
Sometimes, we assume that even our grocery store workers have all of the knowledge around the benefits of foods, antioxidants, etc.
Even as a living wage. That’s for another conversation.
That part, too. I remember being in the grocery store and asking for turmeric roots. The gentleman said, “What do you do with it? How do you use it? What do you use it for?” I said, “You can saute it.” Not only is that going to increase the demand for that product in that store, but now that person can take that knowledge home and share it with their family members.
That’s a very good point.
Words Of Wisdom: Advice For Aspiring Physicians
Let’s go back. Dr. Alli and Dr. Smith, go back and talk to the woman who graduated from medical school. What advice would you give to her? Dr. Smith, let’s start with you.
Two things. One, “You are prepared for the next step in your professional journey, even if you feel like you are not. Things will come out of you that you don’t expect. The diligence, the time, and the seeds that you have planted will sprout and pop up even at the most unexpected moments, so you are prepared for the next step.”
The second thing I would say is, “The things that are meant for you will come into your path. You don’t have to fight for them. You are already equipped. You have everything within you that has prepared you to take on this task, this award, this journey, or this position. It’s not something that you’re going to have to fight for. There are things that are designed for you that you don’t have to fight your way into those things.”
That is why we are friends. Echoing what Dr. Smith said, it’s finding your medical home. This is advice that works for everybody. The idea is that when things feel fixed in terms of options, expand your options. To do that, have more friends and meet more people. Say hello and ask. You have nothing to lose in asking, only to gain.
When you ask, if one person says no, find somebody else, because you never know where people are coming from. They may be having a bad day. They may not have eaten that day, frankly. There are so many different contributing factors that lead to that person not being the resource that you need, so find somebody else. Expand your circle. Expand your world.
The last piece is towards what we were talking about, Dr. Walker, which is bringing up the social contagion. If you speak it out loud, it’s more likely to happen. Do that strategically. Ask for things, whether it’s sprouted at your grocery store or asking for friends who can speak your name out loud. All of those things are critical in terms of sponsorship, mentorship, and promotion. Don’t be afraid to expand that world.
Prioritizing Well-being: Self-Care Strategies For Leaders
You are so wise. Thank you so much. That’s great advice. With so many hats that you’re wearing, and I know so many more, but as physicians, authors, mentors, and educators, we’d always like to know how people recharge themselves. How do you practice self-care? We know you do very well in terms of nutrition. You can expound upon that if you want, but we’d love to know what your self-care regimen looks like. Dr. Alli?
The funniest part about having a kid is that they are natural accountability buddies. If you start even one routine one day, they will hold you accountable and ask you, “Why didn’t you do this? We did this yesterday.” They also find joy in the smallest and most important ways. They move naturally. That’s what I would say is my recharge. It is trying to center myself and be mindful through his eye. That’s been rewarding. When I don’t do that, he lets me know. Having an accountability buddy is critical. You can find an accountability buddy in anybody. If you don’t have a kid, borrow a kid.
It could be a friend.
The reason I bring it up is that there are so many important people who have the ability to positively influence the children around us. If you have that ability to do so, and it’s in genuine kindness, and you ask first, there’s so much joy to be shared mutually. That’s why I bring that up.
That’s very good. Dr. Smith?
I’m a woman of faith. My recharging is focusing on the truth of who I am, the truth of what I’m here to do, the truth of the impacts that I have had, and the truth of those in my life who speak life into me. That’s a way that I recharge. It is what I call focusing on what is true. I am meditating on that and focusing on that. I love retail therapy. I love going to new places. I enjoy traveling when I can. Seeing the way things are done in different places and the way people live in different places has always been something that has interested me. I learn a lot. I enjoy being immersed in other cultures.
That’s very good. You both have been amazing. This is why we wanted to have you on. We appreciate your sharing, your transparency, and all of your knowledge. I’m wondering if you are willing to have a quick Rapid-fire round. It’s very quick and easy. There’s no heavy lifting and no heavy thoughts here.
Sure.
I’ll start. Morning person or night owl? Dr. Smith?
Night owl, 100%. The morning is often a struggle for me, but I’m learning. I love being up at night.
Both.
Sylvia and I have answered this question in our own lightning round, and we’re both neither. As Sylvia would say, morning people by occupation only. Here’s the next one. I’d love to hear this one. Go-to comfort food?
We make this mac and cheese that’s made with silken tofu, onions, red pepper, and these amazing spices. It is so good. The reason I know is that my little one will eat it all up. We use a bean-based noodle. If I didn’t describe it first and you ate it, you’d be like, “Okay.” I’ll share the recipe with you.
Please. That sounds good.
Mine is grits with cashew cream topped with grilled vegetables, particularly a mix of oyster mushrooms, collard greens, tomato, and onions. That is one of my favorite things to eat. If you ever come to my home for brunch, that is always on the menu.
Do you share a recipe as well?
I do. I am happy to do so.
Favorite book?
We put a lot of love into it. I did want to quickly shout out through our mentorship program, Paulina Awuah-Saadiq. I met her and her husband through the program that we mentor. She’s a second-year resident in internal medicine. She’s one of the co-editors of the book. I’m bringing it full circle.
That’s a tough one. I would say the autobiography of the month because I like hearing about other people’s journeys. I’m reading Cicely Tyson’s book. I enjoy learning about the journeys of others. My favorite book is usually whatever autobiography I’m reading at that time.
One hobby or activity that instantly makes you happy?
Dancing all day long. We did Zumba together all throughout residency. That was our decompression.
Line dancing?
It was Zumba. It is like line dancing.
Mine is probably playing basketball with my family. I come from a family of athletes. My siblings and the next generation, we’ll get together and play games. I enjoy that time.
A dream travel destination?
I’ll go first. Mine is Jeju Island in South Korea. It’s beautiful. It has been on my list for about ten years. I want to go visit there. With what I’ve seen of it, I want to experience it in person.
I haven’t heard that one.
Anywhere in the Caribbean would be my spot. It has to be warm.
If it feels hard, it's worth doing. Share on XParting Thoughts: Inspiring A Healthier Future
Kindred spirits there. It has been an absolute pleasure. I’m grateful for the experience. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you for your intention, enlightening the community and those around us, inspiring the young people, and inspiring your peers as well to live the healthiest version of yourself. I hope that you continue to do what you do, continue to grow, and continue to help us, as I’m coming behind you in this lifestyle medicine journey. Continue to learn to live the healthiest version that we possibly can. I would like to give you an opportunity if you have anything else that you’d like to share with our audience. Is there anything that you’d like to leave with in terms of parting words?
Dr. Smith, do you want to go first?
Go ahead, Dr. Alli. You’re good.
I would like to highlight that if it feels hard, it’s worth doing. This is worth doing. Eating this way is worth doing. We do offer resources through Seeds to Inspire Foundation, which is the organization where I’m Chief Wellness Officer. We are doing a lot of the grant work through there. If we have the ability to support people remotely through presentations, directly here in Arizona, and handholding, we are happy to do so. I also want to say thank you to you and Dr. Morris. It is enlightening to find other people who illuminate others and believe in walking alongside each other towards our goals. I am very grateful to be in the presence of such strong and brilliant people and leaders. Thank you also, Dr. Smith.
Routines are made for us and by us. Share on XMine would be something that many people have said before me. It’s to choose your heart. Discipline can be hard. Discipline in your eating, discipline in your physical activity, and discipline in your sleep hygiene, all those can be difficult, but it’s also hard to deal with the ramifications of not doing that. We have an opportunity to choose the hard thing. You can choose to be disciplined, or you can choose to deal with the sequelae of your decisions, which are the negative health impacts of not prioritizing these things earlier, in the future. That’s hard, too.
The other thing I’ll say is, nutrition is incredibly important. I also am a big advocate of personal finance. If you aren’t managing your money well, you may not have the resources to obtain the things that you need to continue to live a healthy life. Be mindful of living beneath your means if feasible and plan for your future, so that you have resources that can help impact the health of yourself and those that you care about.
I have one more small thing that Dr. Smith reminded me of. It’s that routines are made for us and by us. There are routines that we do that we don’t even realize. For example, at one point, I was stopping off and getting a donut before work. This was several years back. I was like, “I earned this. I deserve this.” I then had to change my routine because I had to drop off my kid for school, and I couldn’t drive by there anymore.
What I had made was a routine that wasn’t allowing me to be healthy. What I had to do, though, was plan my breakfast more accordingly, get up earlier, be more intentional about what I was buying, and think about what I was eating. Changes in our routines are critical to that. The very last quick thing is that when you can choose a food that offers you layers of benefit, you are doing well. Think of it in the way that if you could find something that makes you feel good when you put it on as a dress, but it also looks good. It’s comfortable, and it fits well.
It’s the same thing with your food. If you’re picking foods that not only provide you with nutritional benefits, but you like the way they taste, you’re more likely to eat them. You want to position those kinds of foods front and center in your refrigerator or your counter. You want to plan them into your routines, like when you’re driving or commuting, so that you’re having those things at quick access. The more you can layer your nutritional benefits, the better.
The more you can layer your nutritional benefits, the better. Share on XAs they say, you have dropped the mics. I don’t think I have anything to add there. I don’t even know if we end up doing pearls at the end of this, which we typically do, because you’ve dropped them all over the place. Thank you so much. Until we meet again, may you be well.
Thank you.
May you be well as well. To health.
Cheers.
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Angela, that was a fantastic conversation with Dr. Alli and Dr. Smith. I have a list of things that I am thinking about. What did you learn?
I learned so much. They’re very inspiring in everything that they’re doing in terms of how they practice medicine and their philosophy in terms of teaching. I like the comment about social contagions and the idea, which I learned at my grocery store, of asking for a product. I learned that myself by asking for something. They were like, “I don’t know. Maybe we can get that.” I was like, “Maybe you can get that. A lot of people would buy that if you get that.” Asking for the healthy options sometimes requires you to make the effort to do that in order to get some of the healthy alternatives. Maybe you have 2 or 3 friends who shop at the same store.
I was so excited about her book that you had to cut me off because it resonated with me so much in terms of what I believe and my philosophy in terms of teaching children. They are our future. By making your kids excited about eating healthy, as she talked about her own child, it’s contagious to those around him, even to his peers and the adults who interact with the child. There’s value in being diligent about teaching our kids about the importance of eating healthy and eating the rainbow, and teaching them that food is medicine and preventative measures. Most importantly, we need to teach them that it’s good. It tastes good.
It is the exposure and making it taste good. You don’t want to dump it out of the can or take it directly from the freezer with no flavor, no seasoning, or no salt.
That was good. Lastly, for me, it was in terms of what I learned about sprouted tofu. I did have a chance to Google quickly after our conversation. The closest thing to me is a Trader Joe’s, which is in Atlanta. I’m sure there are plenty of grocery stores. I did not Google them all, so I can’t speak for all the stores. I’m sure all the stores want to carry sprouted tofu. At least I found a place that does, because I do like tofu. I like cooking with it. Sometimes, it can be a process, but it’s still an easier process to do.
You’re going to have to help me with that. I’m the queen of veggies. For tofu, the texture has to be right for me, as well as the flavor. If either one of those things is off, then I’m out.
This one sounds like it’s the firm one. You can use it like ground meat and make tacos. I do Taco Tuesday. I season it up and put everything else you would do. I can do vegan cheese and that sort of thing.
The next time I come to your house, let’s do that. I have never heard of that.
How about you? What did you take away?
There were so many things that I learned. The concept of peer mentoring is important. Sometimes, you are in situations where there are not many like-minded people. If you have a peer with whom you vibe well, then you all can do peer mentoring. That is good. You and I have been each other’s mentors for a very long time.
Then, it was when Dr. Smith, in particular, talked about unveiling the hidden curricula. With our book, The Game Plan: A Woman’s Guide to Becoming a Doctor and Living a Life in Medicine, we, too, were working to unveil some of the hidden curricula. It’s important that we make it easier for the next generation of physicians and healthcare professionals by simply sharing information. That was important and one of the many learnings, in addition to food is medicine. We can talk about that all day, as far as I am concerned. That is important.
Maybe we can share some recipes together at the end of next season. This was fantastic. It was a little bit in the making, and it turned out to be perfect timing. We were so grateful to Dr. Alli and Dr. Smith for sharing their insight and all that they’re doing to make our world healthier. That’s it for this episode. We would love for you to like, subscribe, and share this episode, particularly if anything resonated with you. You can reach us at BossLeapPodcast.com. Give us any messages you’d like us to know. If you’d love to hear something in addition to this episode or future episodes, please let us know. You can subscribe to YouTube. We would love to hear from you there as well. Until we meet again, may you be well.
May you be well.
Important Links
- WellNEST Medicine™
- Dr. Jasmine Smith on Instagram
- Tayo and the Super Produce Pals at the Grocery Store!
- The Game Plan: A Woman’s Guide to Becoming a Doctor and Living a Life in Medicine
- Boss Leap Unplugged: Rapid Fire Questions With The Co-Hosts – past episode
- Boss Leap Podcast on YouTube
About Dr. Bisi Alli
Dr. Bisi Alli is a physician leader dedicated to improving health outcomes through education, systems innovation, and compassionate care. She has held key leadership roles at the Phoenix VA and Mayo Clinic Arizona, advancing national quality and safety initiatives, and now serves as Principal of WellNEST Medicine™, Chief Wellness Officer of the Seeds to Inspire Foundation, and Associate Professor at Creighton University School of Medicine.
Her work focuses on preventive health, equitable obesity care, and community wellness—efforts reflected in her children’s book Tayo and the Super Produce Pals at the Grocery Store!, which promotes nutrition and healthy habits through storytelling.
About Dr. Jasmine Smith-Onyebuolise
Dr. Jasmine Smith-Onyebuolise is a quadruple-boarded pediatric hospitalist at Children’s Hospital Los Angeles, specializing in pediatrics, internal medicine, hospital medicine, and lifestyle medicine.
A dedicated clinician, educator, and mentor, she has led initiatives to improve patient care systems, equity, and financial wellness education, while serving as a faculty mentor and advocate for diversity and inclusion in medicine.
Her work bridges quality care, mentorship, and community health—reflecting her passion for empowering future generations, including through her support of Tayo and the Super Produce Pals.