Emotions, feelings, and the journey of self-discovery – they’re all part of the human experience, and today we’re unpacking them with a truly insightful guest. In this lively episode, Drs. Sylvia Morris and Angela Walker are thrilled to welcome Laura Morse, licensed professional counselor. Laura dives deep into the differences between emotions and feelings, shares her personal path to becoming a therapist, and illuminates the unique ways she connects with her clients. Get ready to demystify “psychotherapy,” shatter misconceptions about mental health, and explore the vital roles of intuition and self-care—all while enjoying a vibrant, down-to-earth conversation. If you’re curious about mental wellness or just love a genuine and engaging chat, this episode is packed with valuable insights and a warm embrace of all things therapy.
Music courtesy of Dealer’s Choice Sound Recordings, Inc.
Music artist: djezi
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Stop Pushing, Start Listening: Harnessing Intuition In A Busy World With Laura Morse
We are in for a treat. We spoke with psychotherapist Laura Morse. She is a Nebraskan. She is a graduate of Spelman College. She left us with so many pearls. Laura talked about the difference between an emotion and a feeling. She talked about intuition. She is a Kdot fan. Please stay tuned for psychotherapist Laura Morse.
Sylvia, before we get into our interview with Dr. Morse, we talked to her about what she would do if she weren’t a psychotherapist. What do you think you would be if you were not a physician?
Quiet as it’s kept, I looked into going to cooking school around the same time I was applying to medical school.
I had no idea. You’re a good cook, too.
I’m pretty good. I enjoy cooking for people. I looked at the Culinary Institute of America. I remember going to the intake. They had this whole reception thing, and my mom went with me. It’s a crazy thought because I wouldn’t want to be hot in a confined space and not be able to look beautiful. That part of it may not have worked out so well, but I like the technical part, the creativity, being able to make a meal for people, and that constant joy.
What flashed through my head was this restaurant in Manhattan, Sylvia’s. You walk in with your nice outfit on. The presentation is amazing, and the food’s even better. I had no idea. I learn something new about you every time we do this. I could see it. No wonder I like eating your food.
I like your food, too. Tell me. What would you be if you weren’t a doctor?
You can probably guess, but if I weren’t a doctor, I’d like to be an artist. I love to create. My best friend doesn’t have much faith in me. My best friend from childhood, anyway. I’ll say her name out loud. Ms. Bridget used to laugh at me when I said, “I want to paint.” I love to paint, draw, and do pottery. You get me anything that is creative, and I’m all in. I have my little space downstairs that I have yet to thoroughly utilize, but I’m supposed to make Tuesday evenings my painting evening.
That’s nice.
I love to create. I’m not sure if I would make any money at it, but in my other life, that’s what I would be.
Please stay tuned for our conversation with Laura Morse. You will discover what she would have done if she weren’t a psychotherapist.
We have an awesome guest. We have Laura Morse, who is a psychotherapist and an overall wonderful human being. Laura, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, Sylvia. I am so glad to have met you. I am looking forward to talking to Angela since I get to meet you for the first time here. I am very honored to come to share and hopefully provide something that’s helpful to whoever is tuning in.
We want to get a lot of clarity because we know that you are able to give that. We’re meeting officially, but I got to hear you at Dr. Mandeville’s opening of The M Factor. You were part of the panel at the end, discussing all things menopause. You shined a light on how it can affect our mental health. I was so appreciative. You were so easy to listen to and had a lot of profound facts. We enjoy listening to people whom we respect. We know that we’ll learn a lot from you, so thank you again for being here.
Thank you so much. I’m glad that you all came.
It was great.
It was fantastic.
We have a lot to ask you and learn from you. We’re going to jump right in. Some of our foundational questions are for you to tell us a little bit about how your journey began, whether it started from childhood or as a young adult, how you got to where you are, and what shaped and formed you.
The Journey Unto Psychology: Laura’s Personal Story
Thank you. I was reflecting on that question. I grew up in Nebraska.
A Cornhusker.
Every therapist has a story. We have our own origin stories. In my family, my mother and grandmother were my primary parents. My grandmother was not able to finish college because there was a divorce in her family. My mother is divorced. My grandmother is divorced. My great-grandmother was divorced. I said, “Somebody has unjumped a broom in my family lineage.”
I think about being raised by women. It wasn’t until my mother was able to have two children, but everybody else was a daughter. There was only one going through the generations. In that timeframe in the ‘80s, growing up in Nebraska, and there were not a lot of Black women to know and to see, it was a very interesting dynamic.
As I reflect, I realize I had a lot of emotion, but I had a family who didn’t value the emotion or know how to speak to it. You didn’t speak to it. I had a father who was incredibly distant. My parents were divorced. If you brought up anything like, “You said you were coming to pick us up. We’ve been waiting on grandma’s stoop for about ten hours,” and said anything to that, then that meant he would not speak anymore. There would be no more visits for a good period of time.
When I think about how I came to appreciate psychology, it was taking an AP Psychology class in high school and learning about emotions. I was learning about it, knowing that I have them and people have them, and understanding there is a whole field of study around how the brain works and how it’s connected to feelings. There’s so much more to psychology, but that’s what I resonated with. Sure.
Emotions Vs. Feelings: Understanding The Difference
A question comes from me. I’m sure we’ll get into this. Emotions and feelings, are they the same thing?
They are very much connected, but it is how they are expressed. Everyone has an emotion. We all have feelings and emotions, but how do we express them? We all have feelings.
I feel happy, but the emotion associated with that is?
It depends. It could be joy. It could be very much, “Is Dr. Morris happy? What’s going on?” You’re like, “I’m very happy,” and we would not be able to see it. When I think of emotions, I’m thinking about this outward expression, something that other people could resonate with or feel. For feelings, I think about something that is a little bit more internalized.
Thank you. I realize I put the cart before the horse. Let’s go back a little bit. I use the words psychotherapy and psychology interchangeably. Could you please help my nomenclature and help explain what psychotherapy is?
Demystifying Psychotherapy: What It Really Means
I feel like psychotherapy is becoming an overarching term because when people think about psychotherapists, they might think about somebody who provides psychoanalysis, therapy, or more of a process-type of working with people. We’re looking at degrees, like what type of degrees and studies do people undertake, and then how to use that.
This is important for readers. People who are educated love to have letters behind their names. We take for granted that people are going to understand and respect all the letters behind our name, but they don’t know what that means. Usually, they’re like, “Doctor.” When you think about a doctor in psychology, you might think about psychiatry.
Psychiatry is medicine. People who are trained in psychiatry are trained to assess medically and decide, “Do I need to help this person have some kind of medical intervention, such as medication for an ailment or illness?” Psychiatrists can diagnose and give somebody an idea of what’s going on with them. I don’t want to say what’s wrong, but a lot of times in Western medicine, it is what is wrong with you. This is the distinction I think is important because people are afraid of that. They don’t want to go to a doctor and be told what is wrong with their mind.
People are afraid to go to a doctor and be told what is wrong with their mind. Share on XA different comparison to when they show up at Dr. Angela and me. They want to know what’s wrong. They’re like, “Doctor, I want to know how this happened. Why did it happen?” I’m like, “I don’t know. You didn’t die.”
They have medication for it, too, right?
That’s right.
It might be like, “Please, I have this. My knee is hurting. What are medications for the pain?” For psychiatry, it’s a little bit different, and the interaction is different. The medical doctor or the psychiatrist is like, “What do I need to do to medically manage you?” My clients might say, “They didn’t talk with me. I have all this history to share with them. They weren’t interested in that, like that wasn’t their role.”
We’re moving on to a psychologist who could be trained in psychotherapy or counseling. For many psychologists, they’re interested in testing and metrics, or they’re interested in research. They have a little bit more lanes that they could go down to decide, “What do I want to do with this education here?” I’ve met some wonderful psychologists who are therapists who enjoy practice, and I met many psychologists who are like, “We enjoy the testing part of it. We want the research-based part of it. We don’t want to deal with all of the emotional processing.”
You then have the Master’s level therapist, which is myself. I’m a licensed professional counselor. We crave learning about how to sit with people and how to help them identify their emotions, their feelings, and their mental health and wellness. We look at ways to expand and improve the quality of life that is different from being treated medically. I hope that helps a little bit.
That’s very good. Thank you for breaking it down. For Sylvia and me, generally, when I have a patient who I know probably needs to speak with someone, and they’re able to determine which route to go, I usually say therapist. You, as a psychotherapist, it’s in your title. You are a therapist. Some psychologists might be therapists as well, and some psychiatrists may do therapy as well, but they also have another lane that they may be more drawn to or isolated to. Thank you for delineating all of that for us.
I want to say something, too, if you don’t mind.
Please.
A client might say, “I feel like I have ADHD.” I know my limitations. I know that I cannot diagnose. I can understand the symptoms and, probably at this point in my career, say, “That wouldn’t surprise me if you do. If you want to know, then you can go to a psychologist and have the testing done. Once you have that information, what do you want to do about it? Do you need to see a psychiatrist to get the medication? Do you need to come back to therapy and learn how to adjust to this new diagnosis? What does this mean for you behaviorally? What does it mean for you socially? What does it mean for your esteem?” We can then work through that part of it.
That’s very good.
Meeting People Where They Are: The Therapeutic Approach
Your approach is to meet people where they are. I use that a lot when talking about behavioral changes. We want people to try and change their dietary habits, as an example. If you’re always going to fast food places, then overnight, you are not going to start eating salads. When you talk about meeting people where they are from the perspective of a psychotherapist, can you help explain what that means? How do you do that?
Thank you. I think about it in terms of when people are coming to see me for the first time. They may have had years of therapy, or they may have never seen a therapist. I can give them an assessment or a questionnaire and ask them, “Tell me about yourself.” I could probably look at that questionnaire and say, “Trauma. Addiction. Family history here.” It would be so presumptuous of me to say, “We’re going to dive right in and talk about your mother. We’re going to talk about Mama right now.” You don’t do that.
They may not come back.
Pacing is important to me. I want to know from that particular client, “What brought you here? Where are you today? Tell me what’s important to you.” Get a sense of them and say, “You’re telling me that you are feeling down. You’re telling me that you’ve had fifteen breakups in a row.” I might be thinking, “Is there a common denominator here?” but I’m not going to say that.
I’m going to say, “Let’s talk about what it feels like to come into the office and wonder, “Is it me? Am I the reason why I cannot have sustainable relationships? Does that have to do with my family history when I thought we were all so close, and I had this wonderful upbringing? I’m realizing now that we didn’t have boundaries, and we had a lot of criticism.” It could be things like that.
Meeting people where they are is, in my opinion, respectful of how you exist. Say, “No matter how you come, it has value. I have time to listen and to learn about you. I’m not going to assume that I’m an expert on your life. I’ll never be right, but I will be here to use my expertise to help you learn, grow, see what goals you have, and hopefully guide you, support you, stretch you, push you, and encourage you along the way.” That’s how I think about meeting you where you are.
Meeting people where they are is respectful of how you exist. Share on XI love that. You wrapped it up in a bow at the end. I love that approach. That makes for a very good relationship between a patient and a therapist. In terms of how people see therapy, most of us, when we were growing up, saw somebody lying on the couch and maybe doing hypnosis. There are all these wild thoughts that go through people’s minds. In terms of therapy in general, what do you think people misunderstand the most about what it is?
Mental Health Myths: Clearing Up Misconceptions About Therapy
There’s so much to misunderstand around therapy because of how it is portrayed in the media. A lot of times, it’s funny. You see this healer or this “expert” but he or she is a hot mess themselves. They have all of this going on. They’re supposed to be fixing somebody. I used to love Frasier Crane and some of the arrogance of it, but then you see all this stuff going on.
A lot of people get an idea about therapy or therapeutic services from the media. I do feel like in communities, especially of color, there’s so much stigma. Since COVID, people are talking about mental health and therapy in a different way. That’s how I got invited to do panels and podcasting because people were like, “We want to talk about this.”
Sometimes, people see it as a moral weakness. If you have diabetic concerns, cancer, or any kind of ailment, you’re not impugning someone because they chose to go to the doctor. You’re like, “That was smart. You have benefits. That’s so great. You’re using your medical benefits. Look at you.” Going to therapy feels different for a lot of people. I’ve had people come into my office, and I don’t even have this office in a special place, but they are almost shrouded. They’re covering up.
They’re hiding.
I’m like, “What’s going on?” They’re like, “I’ve been sitting in the car and I’ve been so ashamed to come into this private space.” It is a more private space than a lot of people have if they’re going to a clinic for sexual health. It’s changing, but I do think a lot of times people think that this is not that important and that mental health is different from physical health, but we all know it’s very much interrelated.
Finding The Right Therapist: Practical Advice And Tips
You brought up COVID. Certainly, it has been in the popular lexicon as far as seeking services. When someone is looking for a therapist, how do you recommend they go about finding the right therapist for them?
Thank you. That’s a great question. One, it’s reflecting, “What feels important to me at this time?” For many people, it is a crisis. The crisis is an important part. It’s like, “My child is so anxious or so depressed,” or there’s some type of self-harm involved. Self-harm could be mental health or physically related. Sometimes, it’s drug addiction or use. There are a lot of ways we can self-harm actively and passively. It could be feeling, “I’m coming undone. I’ve never experienced this before. This anxiety is crippling to me. Now I don’t know what to do.”
In that, you have to, as a therapist, assess, “What do you need immediately? Are you in a position where there is a type of self-harm or thoughts that require immediate intervention?” There are different levels to it. If you’re not at that place, but you’re like, “My quality of life is not where it could be. I want some support around it,” then it is, “Who do I want to speak with? Do I want to speak with a woman? Do I want to speak with a Black woman? Do I want to speak with somebody who has education or understanding about depression only? Do I not know?”
What I tell my clients or people who call me, even after the first session, “If you don’t feel comfortable sitting in the space with someone, you’re not going to open up and tell them the rest of the story.” I can’t tell you how many people have come and are like, “I’m coming here because I’m having relationship problems.” Two sessions in, they’re like, “I’m wanting to talk about this abuse that I suffered as a child.”
I have to be prepared for any type of conversation, but I know that I wouldn’t get there if people didn’t feel comfortable doing it. I ask my clients, people who are coming in, “If you don’t feel comfortable with me, allow me to help you find someone that you might want to work with.” I’m not for everybody. Not every therapist is for everybody, and it’s okay. Sometimes, when people are in crisis, they’re so exhausted and they’re like, “It took me so long to find you, so I’m going to ride it out.”
Get an appointment.
There are some times we work with a practitioner, like, “This is not going to be a good fit.” We have to hopefully have more energy to say, “Let me find a better fit.”
I appreciate you bringing that up and explaining that aspect because that’s usually my first comment to patients when I recommend therapy. Number one, my recommendation is that we should have an annual visit with a therapist as you would your annual well-woman exam or your annual physical exam to check in. That would be lovely, but in our lexicon, it is not happening.
I do tell patients when we’re talking about therapy, “It’s like a doctor. You have a medical doctor with whom you have a good relationship. If you don’t get a good feeling, you don’t have to stick with that person. You can see someone else. As a matter of fact, I’m not offended by that if you need a second opinion or would like to see someone else. I’m not everyone’s cup of tea. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water when you are saying, “Therapy’s not for me,” because you didn’t have that connection with the first therapist that you spoke with.” It’s nice to hear practitioners who are open to helping someone find someone that might be a match for them.
You’ve got to take the ego out of it. Especially if I know somebody who it took them so much to even consider mental health therapy, and they’re like, “Why would I switch? You’re great already,” I’m like, “I want you to know that I would help you. I’m never going to be more important than the work that could be done.”
Is there any advice that you find yourself giving your clients that you need to remind yourself of?
I have to be careful. In therapy, we’re not supposed to necessarily give advice. We can’t throw out concepts and be like, “Have you considered?” or, “Are you curious?” It is about framing. There is one thing, especially with the influx of women, that I have been so privileged to have seen. Black women, as we look more about our holistic wellness, it is our core mission to care for ourselves. It is this idea that we’re not going to get all of the awards for burning ourselves out for everybody else. I say that to them because I had to say it to myself. There’s this idea growing up that productivity was constant busyness, so you had to show not only yourself, but other people that you were continuously working all the time.
We’re grinding. There are all those phrases.
Hustle culture. We have these terms. They get popular, and people are trying to live up to what that even looks like. I am helping someone see, “How productive are you? If you’re truly burning out, then what’s getting done except for damage to self?” We are looking at self-esteem. What is our self-esteem or our identities? There are lots that you can go down and explore with people. That’s the one thing. People are tired, and they’re coming. When people say, “I’m tired,” it’s not that they need to take a nap. It’s like, “What am I hearing?”
This can happen in medicine as well when you have a patient who may be dealing with a modifiable illness, something that they may be able to change their behavior and affect the outcome. How do you balance empathy and accountability in therapy when you find that there’s someone who’s stuck in a difficult place and they don’t seem to be able to move from that?
That happens. Sometimes in therapy, people will start to plateau. I feel like it’s that growth change. It’s that point where we know that to grow means to stretch and to be uncomfortable again. They might say, “I’m here in therapy. My goal was to start therapy, maybe start medication, and not feel as bad as I have,” and they’re like, “I’m feeling better.”
I’m like, “You also talked about all of these things that were important to you.” I ask at the beginning, “What would make therapy worthwhile? This is a financial investment. This is a time investment. What would make you feel, “I am rewarded for the work I was willing to put in, so I’ll always keep that in the back of my mind.”
The empathetic part is that once people are stuck and you’re gently pushing them, and then they want to push back. They’re like, “I’m feeling good. Why are we talking about this now?” or, “I don’t know. Things are never going to change.” It’s that hopelessness. I’m like, “There is so much that has changed, so maybe we’re reflecting on it.”
I want to be empathetic and respectful, but I also want to say, “You wanted to get your money’s worth out of this year. What is it that we can do or explore that would help you go a little bit further? What needs to be done?” They could sit back and say, “I have to start being more accountable now because I’ve been focusing on the external part of the change instead of the more internal part of the change.”
For example, a person comes in. I’m using women because I have a lot of women clients. They’re like, “I finally got rid of this guy. I’ve been dragging him along, and he’s been dragging me along for all this time. I finally set boundaries around him. Now, I’m feeling lost and lonely. I know that it was healthy to get out of this unhealthy relationship, but what am I left with?” That could be this regret. This could be a pull to go back into a dynamic, a place, or a space that they have been used to for years.
There’s resentment that builds up, sometimes in therapy. It’s like, “You’re the reason why I’m not with Charles anymore.” I’m like, “No. I knew Charles needed to go, but I would never say that. You have come so far. You’re healthier. You’re setting boundaries.” That’s when we know how boundaries are working because usually, other people are unsatisfied with that. They were going to require some adjusting and changes in order to stay in the relationship.
I have to remind my clients, “You’ve come so far. This is a lot of work that you’ve done. I know you don’t want to go all the way back. What else can you add? What else do you need? What can we explore around that?” It is to get the pacing part of it, but to help people feel more empowered to go through the uncomfortable growth part or piece, and then hopefully not feel alone in doing it.
Laura, we’re going to lighten the mood a little bit. If you were not a psychotherapist, what would you be?
Laura’s Alternate Path And Transformative Education
If I had the talent, I would be on somebody’s stage performing. I love music and performance. I appreciate people who get out there. I don’t care what song or genre it is. If they are able to sing out or do something where people are swaying back and forth and cheering, that’s a gift. Since I don’t have that talent, I probably would’ve ended up in education.
My mother is a teacher. My grandmother ended up being a secretary. She had to drop out of college because of the circumstances, but she told me that she would’ve liked to have been a social worker. There is all this interesting care, and it probably has some other roots to it, too. Codependency finds its way in all of it. It’s still very beautiful. My mother’s 78, and she is still substitute teaching in a high school in Lincoln, Nebraska. I’m so proud of her. She cracks me up. I’m like, “Mom, you don’t have to do this.” She’s like, “These kids.” She loves it.
That’s my mother. She retired at 77 from teaching.
I didn’t know that. Every year, she would say, “I’m so tired.” It was one September after school had started, and she said, “I don’t feel like going today,” and then she retired. It was the kids, the love of teaching, and her purpose.
I’m guessing that trickled down to you as a doctor and how you relate to your patients and talk to them.
I never thought of it that way, but I think so.
Laura, how did you get from Lincoln, Nebraska, to Spelman?
My mother, being a teacher, was part of the National Black Caucus education for the NEA. They had their own caucus. She was an officer.
That’s a big deal.
It was a huge deal. It was our vacation, too. They would have their conventions. That’s how I got to get out of Nebraska. We’d be in DC, and then I’d go to Minnesota. I remember my first time going to Los Angeles, all because my mother was an officer with this convention. She would introduce me to her colleagues and peers who lived in these big cities.
A woman pulled me aside and asked me where I was going to college. I said, “I’m not sure.” She said, “Have you considered an HBCU?” I said, “What is an HBCU?’ She said, “Come here, honey. Let’s talk.” She explained to me about HBCUs, why they were founded, and what was important about them. She was like, “I’d like you to do some research and consider.”
I was like, “I like DC. Maybe I’ll go to Howard.” My mother was like, “Apply.” I did well in school, so I applied to Howard, Clark, Atlanta, Spelman, and then Nebraska. I wasn’t so sure about the South because I had this whole perception that my mom was like, “Things have changed.” Atlanta is a wonderful city with a lot of up-and-coming Black people. I was like, “We’ll see.” I got in, and I went to Howard. I had never seen an urban environment like Howard.
That was like ‘90s DC or ‘80s DC.
It was the late ‘80s.
It was a whole different thing.
My friends and line sisters from DC are like, “Laura, you didn’t know anything?” I said, “I had no idea.” I was like, “I don’t know about that.”
It would be shocking.
My mom then would not let me visit any other school. She did not bring me to Atlanta because she already knew where Atlanta, at the time, was heading in the same late ‘80s. She was like, “If you go down there, you’re not going to go because it is going to be scary.” She would go and visit. She was like, “Pick a school. Pick Spelman.” I was like, “I’ll go to Spelman. There are more houses across the street.” It was so haphazard.
I get down here, and I remember saying to the cab driver, “What is this?” He said, “This is Section 8. This is the project. That over there is your school.” I started to cry. My mom was like, “Get out of the car.” I cried every week the whole first semester. My mother was like, “If you keep crying, I’m making you come back home.”
I was so out of place. There was nobody else from Nebraska. It was just me. I’m 6’0” and very fat with a Jheri curl. It was a whole scene. I also knew that this was the place that I was supposed to be. I get emotional about it. My grandmother wanted to go to school. Her parents being divorced, her father said, “I’m leaving the family, but I promise that you’ll go to college,” but that didn’t happen, so she had to pull out. She’s so smart. She became the Secretary at the University of Nebraska in the Education Department. These people getting their PhDs would come back, and they were like, “Your grandmother is the reason why I have my doctorate today.”
What’s your grandma’s name?
Charlotte Jackson. Thank you. The reason why I’m emotional is that I love Spelman. I felt like it was divine intervention. My grandmother held onto this land. She was very frugal. She sold it by the time it was time for me to go to college. We were poor. I have Pell Grants. I was at graduation, thinking, “I got this scholarship,” and the counselor was like, “We’re not going to make this announcement.” I was like, “ I got all these Pell Grants.” She was like, “You have no idea. It’s okay.”
That’s how I got here to Spelman. My mother was like, “This is where you’re going to go.” My grandmother was like, “This is the money.” My mom was like, “Work, study, and grind. Figure it out.” It has blessed me in so many ways. I don’t know where I want to be. It’s not to say anything about my home state because I love it, but do you know how you get into a mode, expectation, and what people think that you can do, especially a young Black girl? Going to Spelman in the South opened me up to a world of possibility. I have never met so many beautiful, accomplished people in my whole life, and I wouldn’t have if I had stayed in Nebraska. I know that.
I see you getting emotional. I appreciate that and the vulnerability. As someone who holds space for others and for their emotional space, how do you take care of your own mental and emotional health?
Self-Care & Compartmentalization: Maintaining Emotional Health As A Therapist
That is important. As you can tell, I am a very emotional person, but I do have to compartmentalize. I feel that I have worked hard to master how to do that. Meaning, hearing somebody else’s pain, you can empathize with them without owning it. I have learned early on in this career. I worked in psychiatric hospitals, rural community mental health, and substance abuse recovery. I have worked with some clients who have had some incredibly difficult life circumstances, but are like, “I want to get better.”
Being able to hear their stories and hold that space for them without interjecting my own emotions, thoughts, or experience into it is a skill that is so necessary. People are always so grateful that you can do that. Sometimes, people have experiences where there’s a lot of shame and guilt, so they choose to say, “My story isn’t worthy of sharing because other people can’t handle it.” I’ve always felt like if I could learn how to create a safe space for someone to have feelings, then I know that I will be a good therapist. I’ve been able to care and not interject or get so involved in other people’s lives where it becomes, “This is about me somehow.”
Thank you.
If you could go back to that young woman who was a little bit teary-eyed in her dorm at Spelman, what advice or what would you say to her?
I would say, “It was okay not to know everything,” because I surely didn’t. I’d say, “You had an intuition and a gut feeling or drive around you that led you, so trust it more.” We get older and we learn more. Sometimes, it’s easy to stay in the head space and not go back into our heart and our gut space. I have learned over time that it’s important to tap into that intuition and trust it. I know everybody would have a different way of being, “This is just intuition,” or, “This is my spiritual connection or God.” Whatever it is, it has value. It says so much if we slow down, pay attention, and honor that.
It's really important to tap into intuition and trust it. Share on XExercise & Rest As Resistance: Laura’s Key Self-Care Habits
Can you tell us a habit that you have picked up in your 40s or 50s that maybe you wish you had started earlier?
I’m 55. It is to exercise regularly. I’m 6’0”. I was almost too thin growing up, and that doesn’t mean that you’re healthy. Being older, having children, body changes, and menopause, I’m like, “I want to look a certain way, but I don’t want to do the work around it.” Honestly, what it was with COVID and the pandemic was walking. I would go outside and want to move. It then became, “I could talk to my girlfriends while we’re doing this. Everybody’s stressed out, but we’re moving. Look at the trees. Look at this.”
I knew about this, but it’s different when you’re like, “It’s as important now.” Even though the research has been out there for a million years, it is like, “This makes sense now.” How we release our own traumas is through movement and activity. It helps with our nervous system and our vagus nerve. All of that is important.
The focus on exercise and the commitment that I’ve had to it even before I came here was very intentional, and it is specifically for me and no one else. Honestly, exercising the last couple of years with this program and having people that are doing it with you was probably the first time that I said, “I will commit to doing something that is completely 100% for me.” I’m like, “It took me a while to get used to that concept, to be honest.”
We’ll stay here. We always talk about self-care regimes. You’ve mentioned walking and certainly being able to compartmentalize and hold space for other people. What are other components of your self-care regime?
One has been rest or the value of resting. There’s a woman.
That rest is resistance?
Rest is resistance. Share on XYes. She’s done gather. She’s amazing to listen to and talk to. I thought about the pandemic, how everything slowed down, and the anxiousness that I felt about, “What can I do? God, I want to do more. I want to work and see people,” or, “I want to be doing, but we’re not supposed to do anything. We’re supposed to stop and stay away from people.”
Somebody saying to stop doesn’t mean that we’re always resting. Resting is mental, and then there’s emotional resting. It is looking into, “What does rest mean? Why is this so hard to do?” It is connecting that back to this idea of, “If I’m not busy and I’m not productive, I don’t have value,” and then learning, “I have value, and I will always have value. If I rest, I can do more of the things that are important to me.”
A big part of the self-care regime is also resting. It is not just physically resting, but mentally resting. I sat down before, but my mind was like, “Ooh.” It is then like, “Laura, how to slow down your thoughts and how to meditate and be more mindful?” That is something that I love, the concept and the ideas behind it. I want that for my clients. I’m like, “I’ve got to practice this, too.”
Rest is, in and of itself, great advice. I’m not sure where that comes from in terms of the busyness or why we equate being busy with success.
Idle hands of the devil, or all those phrases.
We learned of them growing up.
Especially as Black people.
Sometimes, the stereotypes that were forced upon us that are crazy are anything but. It’s then like, “I got to prove myself that I’m not.” You already know because you are very accomplished doctors. It took a lot to get to where you are. Not just to go through the schooling, but to be good at what you are doing. You all have the stories. I’m sure you’ve shared them. That’s the norm. We do what is familiar all the time.
At some point, it’s like, “I can’t sustain it in this particular way because I’m now 55 years old and tired. I have life situations. Does that mean that I’m now less than or something else is wrong?” It’s like, “No. I’ve done this, and this is okay.” I had a supervisor. She was trying to help me figure out how to maneuver my practice differently. She was looking at things and was like, “Laura, I want you to learn how to work smarter and not harder.” I said, “I have not thought about it.”
Great advice.
I had to sit back and think, “What does working smarter look like?” Figure it out and have more energy and more longevity around it. I went to a workshop by a new psychologist. He said that the true work span for a psychotherapist or anybody in mental health was seven years. I’m like, “I’ve been doing this for twenty-something years. Are you kidding me?” Everybody laughed. People were like, “What are you talking about?” He said, “Exactly, but that’s the optimal timeframe.” He then went back to talk about how you would have a career that has longevity and quality.
The spirit that you had when we met at the conference when I heard you, and then from listening to you here, it does sound like you have peace and joy in your life. Can you tell us what brings you joy? Are there certain activities or things that you do?
The Joy Of Live Music & Kendrick Lamar’s Influence
I love music. That’s why I wish I could perform. I love live concerts. If I have a favorite artist, I will see that artist multiple times. Common is one of my favorite artists. I sometimes wonder if he’s like, “Why is she always at my show?” I enjoy Kendrick Lamar immensely. I went to his tour. Beyoncé is coming up.
You saw Kendrick and SZA?
I went twice.
Do you travel to them?
Yes. I went to Charlotte. He has been here many times. It was my sixth show. I’ve seen him six times when he started off at the Tabernacle back in the day. I loved it. We went to Charlotte. I went with a friend of mine. She’s a psychologist and works for the VA, Veterans Administration. We are huge fans. We traveled to Charlotte and ended up getting on the floor. We were in the sixth row.
That’s so cool.
I promptly tried to get back to Atlanta to try to get some dry shampoo for my hair, and the lady was like, “Do you want to use your senior discount today?” I looked at her, and she looked at me. She was like, “Do you?” I was like, “How old do you have to be to have a senior discount? Does your screen show? I hope that it did.” I wanted to tell her, “I got back from SZA. I have seen her twice, and I was on the ground floor.” She didn’t care, and I did pay her 20%.
There you go.
It is both-and. Music is fun. That’s celebratory, being with other people and singing. That’s something I love. I’ll spend dollars going to concerts. It’s the time, honestly, where I feel like I’m most in the moment. It’s great.
I can relate to that. Both of my daughters love music, but my youngest has a very eclectic taste. Whenever I’m with her, I’m introduced to different music. There’s always music. It’s interesting. It brings me joy. As I was talking to my mother, who’s 84 and loves to listen to music in the car, she mentioned, “When I get in the house, I never even think about the music.” I remember growing up, we didn’t have a lot of music playing in the house unless I put a record on. There’s value and almost a therapeutic component to having music playing. I often do that on my phone. I’m carrying it around, and I’ve always got something playing.
I’m the same all the time. When I’m cleaning in the car, I play Kendrick’s music over and over again. I’m challenging myself, “What do I want to hear differently on this?” I’m trying to keep up with his rap beats. He has been so great around mental health, too, as a Black artist. If I ever got a chance to meet him, I would thank him because I’ve had men that I worked with who have resonated with his work. His music, his poetry, his novel, and hip-hop allowed them to speak to their own depression or anxiety in a way that was easier for them. I don’t know how to say that. It was easier in the sense of, “It’s okay. It’s okay to talk about that.”
It’s permission.
You have this guy who, for all the world, looks like not an average man, but a regular Joe Black man, and he’s talking about mental health. A question for you, do you have a favorite song or rap line from Kendrick from his entire discography? Is there something that you hum all the time that we can say on our PG-rated show?
That is so hard because I have listened to every single album. I should have written this down. Man of the Garden is off his newest album, GNX. It is this manifestation of where he has gone and how he has grown. It is him leaning into, “I worked for this. I own that I have this massive talent. I own that I’m one of one.” The end has expletives. It’s like, “I put in this work.” We all, in our careers, our lives, and our womanhood, have put in work. How dare you try to minimize that? There’s something about that, even though I’m not going to walk around saying that to people in their face and cursing. It is the idea of owning that, in a way, unapologetically.
There are so many things. There are songs that have made me cry. He has a song called How Much A Dollar Cost where he’s looking into this person who’s on the street that wants money from him. It was the way he’s judging that person and realizing that that person is God, too, and humanity. We don’t know our situations. We don’t know where we’re going to be. Could we have compassion and empathy no matter what? It’s a practice. I’m not perfect at it myself. I appreciate the depths to which he can explore topics personally or community-wise.
I love that. What a beautiful way to end the conversation. We would love to have you back. Do you have any parting words that you’d like to say? If you are accepting new patients or if you have any social media handles that you’d like to share, please feel free.
I’m not great with social media. It is LauraMorse.com. If you are curious about me as a therapist or practitioner, let me know. I do want to say this. There are a lot of therapists in Georgia. I know sometimes people are like, “It’s hard to find.” This is why we talk to others and ask them, “Do you know any therapists?”
For the most part, somebody knows somebody who has been to therapy. Those referrals can be great. Hopefully, doctors are starting to provide networks or resources out there, like Psychology Today or Silence the Shame. Google is your friend when it comes to mental health. It is a great tool to learn about it. NAMI, which is the National Alliance on Mental Illness, is great. They have amazing content specific to so many different populations.
If it’s something that you’re considering doing, you’re worth it. Your mental health is part of your health. You cannot separate it. It affects all parts of our being. Why not take care of it? You deserve to. If it’s about, “How do I get started?” There are people who can help walk you through it. Don’t let that fear or shame stop you from enjoying or possibly improving the quality of your life. We only have this one life, so we deserve to have it be better if we want it to be.
I love that. Thank you so much. We always end with lots of pearls. I’ll have a whole necklace at the end. I am so happy to have you with us. Thank you for bringing us the light. We appreciate you.
It makes me very happy. I’m proud and honored to be here with you.
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Key Takeaways: Productivity Without Damage & The Power Of Music
Sylvia, that was a wonderful episode. If you think about who you would pick as a therapist for me or one of my patients, I could tell them, “ I’ve got this fabulous therapist. She’s so easy to talk to. Her voice alone puts you at ease. You’ll be able to open up.” It was Laura. It was Dr. Morse. I thought the interview was great in terms of what she had to share and all the things that she’s about.
What I got in terms of pearls, there are a lot of them. One of the things that resonated with me in terms of living our busy lives and what we’re doing, she talked about what’s getting done without damage. We talked about productivity always being on. We’re trying to get things done and never resting. What are you doing that’s productive without damage to yourself? That’s what I took from it. Number two, the value of music. Music is, for me, very therapeutic. Songs take you to different places and times.
She threw out Kendrick Lamar. I was like, “That’s my girl.”
I thought of you immediately. I knew you guys were bonding. I like it, but I’m new to Kendrick. In terms of Kendrick Lamar, she referenced one of his songs.
Man of the Garden.
In essence, it was, “I worked hard for this,” and being able to own the things that you’ve accomplished. For me, I, in the moment, thought of reminding myself of the things that you’ve worked hard for and have accomplished. That’s what I took away from it.
Pat yourself on the back. Step on your line.
How about you?
There are so many things. It was a wonderful conversation. I know that our readers are going to have lots of takeaways. Learning the definition of a psychotherapist was helpful. I have been very messy in interchanging psychologists and psychotherapists. There are some distinctions we hope you picked up on that. She talked about emotions and feelings and the nuance of that. An emotion is an outward expression, whereas a feeling is that internal thing. They’re not always in complete agreement or alignment. Finally, I liked the concept of using therapy or psychotherapy to improve the quality of your life. We’re all on this journey.
I know that part of the reason we do the show is that we want to improve the quality of everyone’s lives. We’re improving the quality of our own personal lives by doing this and being on this journey. That was such a great reminder. I’m so grateful that Laura spoke with us. I know that everyone who’s reading will have enjoyed the conversation with Laura Morse.
Agreed, 100%. To all of you who are tuning in, we hope that you will read, like, and subscribe. That will help us to, hopefully, open up the doors for other readers. Certainly, if you can give us whatever feedback you have and anything that you’d like us to talk about, we’d love to hear about it. Until we meet again, may you be well.
May you be well.
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About Laura Morse
I have been working with individuals, couples and families since 1996. I am fortunate and proud to have a culturally diverse clientele. I work with all clients in a manner that is personal, respectful and results-oriented. Whether you are entering therapy for the first time or restarting the therapeutic process, I will “meet you where you are” and help you navigate this process that often yields personal surprises along the way.
My intention is to work with you in a way that is genuine and empathetic in order to promote personal growth. I have years of experience and interest working with a variety of populations with varying concerns, and embrace that there is no one-size-fits-all approach to therapy. Therapeutic needs begin to change as one works through issues and so I must be able to adjust as well. I enjoy drawing from different therapy models (experiential, reality based, attachment based) in order to provide a therapeutic experience that continuously “meets you where you are.”I have completed an intensive externship and core-skills training and various workshops in EFT (Emotionally Focused Couple Therapy) developed by Dr. Susan Johnson. I use the EFT model to support couples seeking to repair a relationship that has been strained or broken in some way. EFT pays close attention the security (or lack there-of) couples experience with each other and the emotions emerging from that level of security or connection. Please visit iceeft.com for more information.
I participate in workshops, online training, podcast learning and independent reading on subject matter pertaining to my professional interests and professional trends. I have worked extensively in community mental health, substance abuse treatment (inpatient, outpatient, residential and legal), family programs and more. I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunity to grow professionally in the many facets that being a professional counselor can offer.
I lend my professional expertise to media and professional organizations who are seeking further understanding on the matters of mental health and community impact.